WW2 - Part 2: A Change in Sides

Who would win?

  • Allies' technology defeat Soviet numbers

    Votes: 16 45.7%
  • Allies' technology blunts Soviet numbers, ceasefire

    Votes: 11 31.4%
  • Soviet numbers blunt Allies' technology

    Votes: 3 8.6%
  • Soviet numbers overwhelm Allies

    Votes: 5 14.3%

  • Total voters
    35
  • Poll closed .
Typhoons, P-47, F4U, etc. with Tiny Tim 11.75" rockets?

Each rocket had a 500 pound AP Bomb as a warhead. Make a hell of a mess of any tank out there. Probably be a mission kill (if not a full kill)against A Challenger II or Abrams M1A4 today.

You can,t stop an armoured spearhead from the air.

Or at least back then you couldn't
 
You can,t stop an armoured spearhead from the air.

Or at least back then you couldn't

Quite. Yet, an armoured spearhead is rather useless when you can't supply it. And the Wehrmacht together with the allies operated on vastly shorter supply-lines and would have probably dominated the sky.
 

CalBear

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You can,t stop an armoured spearhead from the air.

Or at least back then you couldn't

That was the question you asked. You asked what could stop an IS-3. A Tiny Tim would do so quite nicely.

As to the complete POD, this is well trod ground. There are several fairly recent threads that address the Allies/Red Army confrontation in this forum
 

hammo1j

Donor
Calbear said:
Typhoons, P-47, F4U, etc. with Tiny Tim 11.75" rockets?

Each rocket had a 500 pound AP Bomb as a warhead. Make a hell of a mess of any tank out there. Probably be a mission kill (if not a full kill)against A Challenger II or Abrams M1A4 today.

The 8 rockets of the Typhoon came to 480lb

The RP-3 (from Rocket Projectile 3 inch), was a British rocket used in the Second World War. Though primarily an air-to-ground weapon, it saw limited use in other roles. The use of a 60 lb (27 kg) warhead gave it the alternative name of the "60 lb rocket"; the 25 lb (11.3 kg) solid-shot armour piercing variant being the "25 lb rocket".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RP-3


But the Tiny Tim was actually only a 150lb warhead.

The Tiny Tim, was an American air to ground rocket used near the end of the Second World War. One source states it was built in response to a US Navy requirement for an anti-shipping rocket capable of hitting ships outside of their anti-aircraft range, with a payload capable of sinking heavy shipping.[1] However, according to the China Lake Weapons Digest,[2] Tiny Tim was
... designed by the CalTech-China Lake team as a bunker-buster, Tim was the first large aircraft rocket, and, although it saw only limited service in WWII, it helped form the foundations of many postwar developments in rocketry.
Tiny Tim had a 150 lb (68 kg) high explosive warhead, and had a maximum range of 1,500 meters (1,640 yards).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiny_Tim_(rocket)

I expect this little known weapon would serve its purpose though.
 

CalBear

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Calbear said:


The 8 rockets of the Typhoon came to 480lb

The RP-3 (from Rocket Projectile 3 inch), was a British rocket used in the Second World War. Though primarily an air-to-ground weapon, it saw limited use in other roles. The use of a 60 lb (27 kg) warhead gave it the alternative name of the "60 lb rocket"; the 25 lb (11.3 kg) solid-shot armour piercing variant being the "25 lb rocket".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RP-3


But the Tiny Tim was actually only a 150lb warhead.

The Tiny Tim, was an American air to ground rocket used near the end of the Second World War. One source states it was built in response to a US Navy requirement for an anti-shipping rocket capable of hitting ships outside of their anti-aircraft range, with a payload capable of sinking heavy shipping.[1] However, according to the China Lake Weapons Digest,[2] Tiny Tim was
... designed by the CalTech-China Lake team as a bunker-buster, Tim was the first large aircraft rocket, and, although it saw only limited service in WWII, it helped form the foundations of many postwar developments in rocketry.
Tiny Tim had a 150 lb (68 kg) high explosive warhead, and had a maximum range of 1,500 meters (1,640 yards).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiny_Tim_(rocket)

I expect this little known weapon would serve its purpose though.

Actually it was 150 pounds of explosive FILLER. The warhead itself was a 500 pound SAP bomb. Speed was 550 MPH

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/app4/tiny-tim.html
 
The OP's years are a bit much,I sort of could see this in 1940-43..but anymore than that is not logical. I would sort of think that Japan would continue to fight,even with Germany defeated..how does the Communist Party Of China fit into this? They might support the Soviet Union as well.
 
Remember, the Allies (initially) only need to defend against the Russian armour. So all those 17-pdr guns and tank destroyers will work fine in defence.

The Germans held them off for a good 6 months, with half their forces. Now they have all their army, no supply issues, plus a Anglo-American army, airpower, artillery.

By the spring, the Allies will be producing Patton and Centurion tanks, and the Germans will have APDS for thir 88mm...and the Russians are running into a manpower crisis.

I think the allied heavy bombers can reach the Russian oilfields as well - tanks dont go far with no fuel. Even if not, they can certainly devastate the Eastern European transportaion system.
 
Did the Soviets even have an aircraft capable of intercepting the B-29? And even if, the B-36 is there and soon it's good.by Moscow.
It could have been an interesting sight: the B-29s escorted by Ta-152s.
If I remember correctly, german industrial capacity was it's peak in 1944, and because the British and USAF leveled german factories, the Germans had no chance against the Soviets. So as you had said, the Allies and the Germans would have been technological superiority against the Soviets. And US industrial capacity at that period was so overwhelming that it could fight alone against the rest of the world.
 
i am not even that sure that the soviets would have suppirior numbers all of the wheremacht + the western allies that should come awfully close to the red army in '44.
 
Aïe!

The soviets would mererly accept the ceasure-fire conditions, until red army is made larger, then attack in spring-summer 1945.
 
i am not even that sure that the soviets would have suppirior numbers all of the wheremacht + the western allies that should come awfully close to the red army in '44.
The Allies (USA, Commonwealth and Germany) would have vastly superior numbers.
On 6th of June, 1944 the Wehrmacht had 9,4 million of soldiers, German allies had some 2,7 million, Anglo-Americans' (and their allies') forces in Europe numbered some 4,2 million, while the Red Army had only 9 million (some of them were in Asia). Combining these figures, we'd have at least 15 million of Western soldiers against (at most) 9 million of Soviets. Of course, by late July 1944 the Wehrmacht was weaker than on Day 'D', but not that much; besides, the American forces in Europe were strengthened between early June and late July, so number of 15 million must stand; at the same time, the Red Army got some new soldiers in June and July, losing some old soldiers in battles.
In such situation, having inferior numbers, relatively poor training, backward planes (comparing with German jets), the Soviets wouldn't stand a chance against the new Alliance.
However, it'd be very hard to get such Alliance going, because it'd mean great internal troubles in Britain, turmoil in the USA, Communist uprisings in France and Italy, and so on. Finally, as some posters said before, all members of Big Three, not only the USSR, were really wanting to fight till unconditional surrender.
 
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