WW2 German victory: SS take power

Hello mates,

I'm working on a personal project envisaging a German victory in WWII where the postwar succession struggle after Hitler's death leads to the SS gaining power in Germany.

How would an SS leadership of Germany affect German domestic and foreign policy?

So far I've got a few ideas off the top of my head...

- The Allies would view this change nervously as the SS turns out more radical than any other Nazi wing. This is in the context of a Reich-American Cold War.
- The Waffen-SS would begin gradually replacing traditional Heer units, though not entirely.
- Non-German Waffen-SS units (like Hunyadi, Nordland, Wiking, etc.) would be transferred from German Army control to the pan-European Axis task force.
- Foreign policy would determine the SS to place loyal Fascist parties in the allied Axis states. The Iron Guard would be put back in power in Romania, the Arrow Cross Party in Hungary, the Falange in Spain, etc.

Let me know what you guys think. :D
Cheers!
 

Deleted member 1487

Its actually extremely tough to get a scenario where the SS takes over the country. The military wouldn't accept that for one, they were not popular with the public, especially Himmler and his lackeys, and neither did Himmler want to be in charge. An SS regime would be very unpopular and unstable, as anyone in the power structure that had a problem with it would unite against them; they could only maintain power through extreme, Stalin-like levels of fear, which would mean heavily purging the army, which would result in a very violent civil war that would wreck the country and the SS was NOT capable of winning. Lay out your scenario for the German victory, the political situation at the time of Hitler's death, and who is heading the SS. Himmler would not opt to take power because he knew he wasn't cut out for it, nor capable of winning that political game or appealing enough to the public. Heydrich, assuming he is alive, wasn't interested in leading the SS or being Führer.
In fact without Hitler the only other publicly popular Nazi is Goering, the rest weren't particularly liked, so unless Goering takes over the Nazi regime would likely fall apart through major public unrest as they fail to deliver on prosperity after the war.
 
The "place loyal fascist parties" part might not work out very well. The thing is, fascists (and nationalists in general) hate the idea of being subordinated to another country's interests. For example, when the Iron Guard was in power in Romania, it was not at all happy with Nazi Germany's dominance. In fact, the Legionaries did their best to sabotage the expansion of German economic influence in the country, held many anti-German demonstrations, and even considered entering an alliance with the USSR against Germany and Hungary. And they were more and more hostile to the SS itself, too.
The Arrow Cross had some problems with the Nazis as well, although far smaller.

And all these conflicting interests and seeds of 'disloyalty' towards Germany were present even when Germany was governed by the Nazi mainstream. If it's taken over by the ultra-fanatic and even more confrontational SS with their even more radical schemes of Germanization and German hegemony...

It's certainly in-character for the SS to encourage hardcore fascism in at least some of Germany's allies and puppets. But I think this could very well blow up in their face.

Generally, what I'd expect of an SS regime is a lot of blundering and megalomania followed by a behind-the-scenes power struggle in which the military and mainstream Nazis take over.
 

Deleted member 1487

The "place loyal fascist parties" part might not work out very well. The thing is, fascists (and nationalists in general) hate the idea of being subordinated to another country's interests. For example, when the Iron Guard was in power in Romania, it was not at all happy with Nazi Germany's dominance. In fact, the Legionaries did their best to sabotage the expansion of German economic influence in the country, held many anti-German demonstrations, and even considered entering an alliance with the USSR against Germany and Hungary. And they were more and more hostile to the SS itself, too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Guard
The Iron Guard were pretty fluid on the topic of Germany. They were more pro-German than the monarch, so the Germans supported the Iron Guard and their rise to power, though weren't hesitant to remove the anti-German personalities that got in the war.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Guard
The Iron Guard were pretty fluid on the topic of Germany. They were more pro-German than the monarch, so the Germans supported the Iron Guard and their rise to power, though weren't hesitant to remove the anti-German personalities that got in the war.

As I understand (mostly from this article), the Germans were actually happy with King Carol II near the end of his reign. Berlin, as usual, preferred to see a more conservative hybrid dictatorship instead of unstable radicals; they didn't really want the Legion to take over. But then Carol II proved too unpopular to stay and Antonescu needed the Legion, so they just went with the flow.

The same article and a few others make it sound like the Legion as a whole was pretty anti-German by late 1940...the SS could eventually get rid of that sort of thing, but after the necessary purges and reshuffles the Iron Guard would be less a "loyal fascist movement" and more "weak empty shell of a fascist movement on life support, eating away at valuable German resources".
 

Deleted member 1487

As I understand (mostly from this article), the Germans were actually happy with King Carol II near the end of his reign. Berlin, as usual, preferred to see a more conservative hybrid dictatorship instead of unstable radicals; they didn't really want the Legion to take over. But then Carol II proved too unpopular to stay and Antonescu needed the Legion, so they just went with the flow.

The same article and a few others make it sound like the Legion as a whole was pretty anti-German by late 1940...the SS could eventually get rid of that sort of thing, but after the necessary purges and reshuffles the Iron Guard would be less a "loyal fascist movement" and more "weak empty shell of a fascist movement on life support, eating away at valuable German resources".

Sorry, meant Carol I. During the coup issue the SS were backing the Guard, while the German bureaucracy was backing Antonescu.
 

TinyTartar

Banned
The SS would not be able to, like Hitler, pragmatically deal with Eastern and Southern European Fascists from a political standpoint.

The SS was entirely wrapped up in its racial ideology and did not have any room for accommodation. The most you would see is the SS trying to allow the leaders of its foreign contingents to be in charge of the puppets it would have to maintain (for example, the SS Charlemagne Division becoming a political and paramilitary force in France that gradually replaces the Vichyist leaders).

The SS honestly would not be able to take power, but if they did, expect a Germany without the ability to resolve anything without the use of overwhelming force.

The SS would not tolerate Mussolini and his neo-Roman ambitions, nor would they tolerate the Iron Guard in Romania. Hitler and the NSDAP would tolerate these groups, and in some cases, further cooperation while in others, they would cut ties and look to replace the existing organizations (think Finland- Mannerheim would be ousted in favor of a more compliant puppet).
 

Deleted member 1487

So what would he do after the war?
Be the power behind the throne within the SS, leaving Himmler as the face and fall guy if anything goes wrong. Himmer in turn was always looking for a master to service, not be the master. So Heydrich probably ends up a dark master behind several layers while having someone relatively pliable as Fuhrer that is acceptable to the military and public.
 
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