WW2 carbines for other countries, too?

marathag

Kicked
Wasn't the wondering Zero a myth
Now those (any really) cut down carbines will.be less accurate from the reduced sight radius, not the shorter barrel.

OTOH, if you just hack the barrel off and don't crown the end of the barrel properly, you will get weird fliers when determining groups.
Maybe that flash hider also hid a hacked off barrel.
 
Now those (any really) cut down carbines will.be less accurate from the reduced sight radius, not the shorter barrel.

OTOH, if you just hack the barrel off and don't crown the end of the barrel properly, you will get weird fliers when determining groups.
Maybe that flash hider also hid a hacked off barrel.
They were proper production weapons they made 100s of thousands of them.

They were not cut up No4s.

No hacking of barrels as far as I am aware
 

Driftless

Donor
Wouldn't a shorter barrel, using the same ammo be inherently less accurate than the longer version of the basic rifle? That barrel shortening, plus the shortening of the distance from front sight to back?
 

marathag

Kicked
Wouldn't a shorter barrel, using the same ammo be inherently less accurate than the longer version of the basic rifle? That barrel shortening, plus the shortening of the distance from front sight to back?
There has been testing of that with AR-15s, between the 'pistol', carbine and rifle length barrels, and with the same optics, hardly any POI change from 10.5" to 26" lengths, and not as much velocity loss as one might expect, either
10.5" with 62gr 2627fps 1288J
16" same 62gr 2989fps 1668J
26" same 62 gr 3231 fps 1948J
 

Driftless

Donor
There has been testing of that with AR-15s, between the 'pistol', carbine and rifle length barrels, and with the same optics, hardly any POI change from 10.5" to 26" lengths, and not as much velocity loss as one might expect, either
10.5" with 62gr 2627fps 1288J
16" same 62gr 2989fps 1668J
26" same 62 gr 3231 fps 1948J
I don't doubt the test results, but it just seems counter-intuitive to me. I'd think that minor difference puts an incentive to make more carbines (so long as the cartridge choice is matched to the gun)
 

marathag

Kicked
I don't doubt the test results, but it just seems counter-intuitive to me. I'd think that minor difference puts an incentive to make more carbines (so long as the cartridge choice is matched to the gun)
To me an AR-15 pistol with 10" barrel and a 'brace' that is totally not a stock, isn't that much smaller than an AR Carbine with 16" barrel and adjustable stock.
Per my other chart, that..223 bullet from a 10" barrel thru a bullet drop calculator with a 100 yard Zero has around 5" drop at 200 yards, while the 16" has 3" drop@200, with the 26" having a 2.5" drop@200
 
They were proper production weapons they made 100s of thousands of them.

They were not cut up No4s.

No hacking of barrels as far as I am aware
One of the suspected causes for the alleged wandering zero was that the lightening cuts made to the No 5 receiver caused it to flex when fired and deform slightly over time. If the No 5 used the .30 carbine round this wouldn't be an issue so the problem wouldn't arise. Mind you there is a strong suspicion that the whole issue was blown vastly out of proportion by the Army to prevent the No 5 being made the new standard rifle when they knew they needed a self loading rifle. Again using the .30 carbine round would prevent that problem as it's not powerful enough to be the main service round.

I could see this variant of the No 5 serving for decades as a cadet and training rifle.
 
The M1 and M2 carbines were popular in Viet Nam. I know of several guys in LRRP that preferred them to M16

The fact that some Special Forces troops preferred wood weapons to platic toys will not change the fact that the M1 carbines weren't used anymore by American frontline or service troops.

The M1 carbines were a failed experience.
 
Well there was the SKS.

The SKS was using the same cartridge that the AK-47. And once the assault rifle was produced in enough numbers, the SKS was used only by service troops and reservists.

This cartridge is still a rifle cartridge and not a carbine one.

The Soviets produced in the same time two weapons, a semi-auto carbine and an assault rifle. Guess who win the game ? And who become a forgotten weapon ?
 
With 6 million made and used for decades, few firearms have failed that well

The weapon was a failure for military use, Wikipedia is very clear about the M1 being used after the war by mostly, police and paramilirary forces and by civilians.

The weapon was used by service and not frontline soldiers, so by definition it was a secondary weapon and a not a combat weapon.

Both the M1 and the SKS was given freely by the USA and the Soviet Union to their allies. And they were keeping serious weapons such as the AK-47 and the M14 for their own troops.
 
The SKS was using the same cartridge that the AK-47. And once the assault rifle was produced in enough numbers, the SKS was used only by service troops and reservists.

This cartridge is still a rifle cartridge and not a carbine one.

The Soviets produced in the same time two weapons, a semi-auto carbine and an assault rifle. Guess who win the game ? And who become a forgotten weapon ?
The M1 Carbine used a strong pistol round and a detachable magazine while the SKS used a weak rifle round and a fixed magazine. Both are comparable weapons, both were produced by the million and used for many years around the world. That they were replaced by later weapons does not make them failures.
 
As proven by whom?

The US Army in 1944-1945.


The U.S. Army Rifle Company (1944-45) with 6 Officers and 187 Other Ranks for a total of 193 armed only 23 men with the M1 carbine, 11 being officers or NCO, 12 being the buglar, the messengers and the amno bearers.

And one of the first thing, every officers and NCO learned in time of war is to carry the same gun, so a M1 rifle, that your soldiers to avoid being killed by a sniper because you have a handgun or a different gun than the others. I saw it wrote in many books about infantry combar or war memoirs.
 

marathag

Kicked
The US Army in 1944-1945.


The U.S. Army Rifle Company (1944-45) with 6 Officers and 187 Other Ranks for a total of 193 armed only 23 men with the M1 carbine, 11 being officers or NCO, 12 being the buglar, the messengers and the amno bearers.

And one of the first thing, every officers and NCO learned in time of war is to carry the same gun, so a M1 rifle, that your soldiers to avoid being killed by a sniper because you have a handgun or a different gun than the others. I saw it wrote in many books about infantry combar or war memoirs.
That's not proving it a failure, as the Carbine was meant to take the place of Rifles for certain roles, as previous the M1911 pistol was shown to not be an effective weapon for ammo carriers/runners/etc for self defense, and carrying a full size rifle or heavy SMG interfered their MOS
 
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