WW2 breaks out in March of 1939?

So thats the POD - Hungary and Slovakia go to war?

Can you elaborate on the war scare thing? - I am not aware that either the Dutch or Romanians were eager to go to war (Romania would be willing to Reverse the Vienna award, so attacking Hungary would be an option, but the DUTCH?)

Hungary and Slovakia went to war IOTL. The POD is a coincidental shooting incident somewhere in the Franco-German frontier. The Dutch get invaded by the Germans. This is before the Vienna awards.

Not sure why the OP has the Romanians declare war though.

By the way, what do the Japanese do?
 
Hungary and Slovakia went to war IOTL. The POD is a coincidental shooting incident somewhere in the Franco-German frontier. The Dutch get invaded by the Germans. This is before the Vienna awards.

Not sure why the OP has the Romanians declare war though.

By the way, what do the Japanese do?

The Romanians enter the war, solely because the British enter on their behalf.

The Japanese are doing the same as they were in September of 1939. They're fighting the Sino-Japanese War. But considering the Germans state, I doubt we will see the creation of a Tripartite Pact. Japan will almost definitely butt heads with the Americans though.
 
I was thinking mostly on the Nomonhan and Tientsin incidents. As in, do they get butterflied away, accelerated, delayed... ?
 
Germany without all the armaments seized from Czechia and six months less arms production? Hmm...does not sound good...
Britain with six months less arms production and mobilisation (expansion of the territorial army, mostly) too? Also does not sound good...
 
I was thinking mostly on the Nomonhan and Tientsin incidents. As in, do they get butterflied away, accelerated, delayed... ?

Im gonna say, that Nomonhan happens in one form or another, just considering the likelihood that the Russkis will be on edge. As for Tientsin, I think that gets butterflied away, considering that the British are fighting a war with Germany at this point.

Britain with six months less arms production and mobilisation (expansion of the territorial army, mostly) too? Also does not sound good...

No it doesn't, but the worst Britain is going to get, are Luftwaffe raids, far less then during the Blitz.
 
Hungary and Slovakia went to war IOTL. The POD is a coincidental shooting incident somewhere in the Franco-German frontier. The Dutch get invaded by the Germans. This is before the Vienna awards.

Not sure why the OP has the Romanians declare war though.

By the way, what do the Japanese do?
What Vienna award? First or Second. First was fall 1938 (Slovakia and Rusyns land after Munich), second in 1940 (Romania).
I can have other POD for you regarding Romania. In OTL when Slovakia declared independence and Czech lends were occupied by Nazis. Hungarian army entered Ukrainian karpathian autonomus region (whic declared independence on March 15th) on pretext, that Czechoslovakia is not longer existing. Romania actually mobilized and put on Hungarian border around 40 000 men because of Hungarian aggression. It was entitled to do so as a member of Little Entente. But because Czechoslovakia dissolved, they only watched. Let say they move in right away...
 
What Vienna award? First or Second. First was fall 1938 (Slovakia and Rusyns land after Munich), second in 1940 (Romania).
I can have other POD for you regarding Romania. In OTL when Slovakia declared independence and Czech lends were occupied by Nazis. Hungarian army entered Ukrainian karpathian autonomus region (whic declared independence on March 15th) on pretext, that Czechoslovakia is not longer existing. Romania actually mobilized and put on Hungarian border around 40 000 men because of Hungarian aggression. It was entitled to do so as a member of Little Entente. But because Czechoslovakia dissolved, they only watched. Let say they move in right away...

Possible, I would prefer the POD remain with the Franco-German incident.
 
Thanks for the response. How long do you think the war goes on? Effects on the world with an earlier defeat of Germany? And the effect of no Holocaust.

Enigmajones

Difficult to say with any certainty. Would expect the 'war' to last less than a year and possibly be over markedly quicker if there was a coup against Hitler. [Although this would raise awkward questions about the statue of Austria and the Sudetenland, as any army rulers would probably want to keep them while the allies would probably be somewhat less favourable of the idea].

With an earlier defeat of Germany I think the 40's would be a lot quieter, at least in Europe. Doubt the Soviets would try anything against a Europe that would probably quickly unite against them. Who develops nukes 1st then becomes very, very important and also pretty unclear.

In the Pacific I suspect the Japanese would be insane enough to attack either the Soviets or unweakened western powers, but then they attack the west plus the US OTL.:eek: If they don't then the two big losers in the region would be China, with a longer Japanese invasion and probably Japan itself, as that war would be a continued drain, they could well clash with someone more powerful sooner or later and would be rather unlikely to get the OTL social and industrial development that occurred after 45.

With the Jews there would be a lot more alive but anti-Semitism wouldn't have got as discredited. Hence probably exists at a higher level in many parts of the world, most noticeably possibly eastern Europe. Britain would continue to oppose unrestricted Jewish settlement in Palestine and seek tight limits and there wouldn't be the OTL international support for it, or the same driving force amongst the Jewish population as a whole. Hence an Israeli state is probably less likely as more likely to be overrun by their neighbours because it is smaller and weaker.

Steve
 
I don't think the Japanese will attack Britain and France, but I expect them to attack either the Philippines or the Dutch East Indies.
 
Someone (can't remember whom) posted recently that the Japanese never mounted an amphibious attack further than 500 miles away. If correct, that would rule out the DEI unless they had taken FIC or the Phillippines first.
 
I don't think the Japanese will attack Britain and France, but I expect them to attack either the Philippines or the Dutch East Indies.

Someone (can't remember whom) posted recently that the Japanese never mounted an amphibious attack further than 500 miles away. If correct, that would rule out the DEI unless they had taken FIC or the Phillippines first.

Enigmajones

If Japan attacks the Philippines it will mean war with the US and defeat. Probably Britain and France offering some support if not overt military assistance. If Japan attacks the DEI I would say that means immediate war with Britain and France. If while the war with Germany is still ongoing then the Dutch are allies so it's automatic. If after a German defeat then still pretty certain. The allies have just had experience of defeating aggression, they won't want the precedent set of Japan knocking over a European colony and they will know how close that puts Japan to controlling their own colonies.

The ~500 mile limit would make sense as they won't want to operate out of range of defending air. While they have carrier support that can't linger around for long due to exhaustion of fuel and munitions. Plus their last two fleet carriers of the initial 6 and several of their light carriers weren't available until late 40/41.

Steve
 
Enigmajones

If Japan attacks the Philippines it will mean war with the US and defeat. Probably Britain and France offering some support if not overt military assistance. If Japan attacks the DEI I would say that means immediate war with Britain and France. If while the war with Germany is still ongoing then the Dutch are allies so it's automatic. If after a German defeat then still pretty certain. The allies have just had experience of defeating aggression, they won't want the precedent set of Japan knocking over a European colony and they will know how close that puts Japan to controlling their own colonies.

The ~500 mile limit would make sense as they won't want to operate out of range of defending air. While they have carrier support that can't linger around for long due to exhaustion of fuel and munitions. Plus their last two fleet carriers of the initial 6 and several of their light carriers weren't available until late 40/41.

Steve
I see the Japanese as going to war with the British and French after they join the Oil ban on the Japanese. Japan loses, but I think the US will keep much of Japan in power.
 
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