ww2 AHC: ideal automatic rifle...

The pan magazines worked well even in ww1. It was an option for the Bren, also used on the Degtyaryov machine gun.

Awkward and heavy does not begin describe the problems with that top feed system. Springs, cost of manufacture, lip jams, etc., were some issues. It worked, but there were better options. (^^^^).
 
Awkward and heavy does not begin describe the problems with that top feed system. Springs, cost of manufacture, lip jams, etc., were some issues. It worked, but there were better options. (^^^^).

Of course there are better options around. The pan magazine was drop-in replacement for the magazine of the Bren, the bel feed was not.

Eh, there were a reason everyone abandoned it and the DP-28 converted to belt feeding after WW2.

I'm always for the belt feed. Some wepons were easier to convert, for some others the pan magazine is an expediant way to improve ammo load.
 

Deleted member 1487

I'm always for the belt feed. Some wepons were easier to convert, for some others the pan magazine is an expediant way to improve ammo load.
So we're settled that the ideal LMG should be a belt fed system, especially for heavier caliber/power automatic weapons?
20-30 round magazines IMHO should be reserved for lighter caliber auto-rifles due to shear simplicity compared to drums and pans, as well as weight considerations, plus commonality with regular squad rifles. You can always jungle clip them.
 

Deleted member 1487

I wonder if something like a simple blowback (based on the WSL rifles) 5.6mm FABRL or CETME type round would be viable?
 
I'm sure there's a gif somewhere of Ian spilling bullets all over because of that terrible drum mag.

I'm surprised there's been little discussion over how meh drum mags are. Heavy, hard to carry and attrocious to load.

Lots of weapons start life with a Drum mag and all evolve away and go stick for a variety of reasons.

Even the Finns evolved away from the successful Saumi 31 drum mag and went stick as did the Russians who successfully copied it in their PPSH 41, dropped it in subsequent versions of the gun.

Changing a stick mag is quicker

Reloading a stick mag is quicker

Carrying a Stick mag is easier

With the well known exceptions drum mags are less reliable than Stick mags

Generally stick mags are lighter than Drum mags (for the same total rounds carried)
 

Deleted member 1487

Not without a ludicrously heavy recoil spring. Or heavy ass bolt.

Just use delayed blowback.
I assume you're talking to me. The recoil impulse of the FABRL round or 5.56 CETME would actually be in like with the .351 WSL or even less. The WSL 1907 shows it could be done without a particularly heavy bolt or spring. It's even simpler and cheaper to make than a delayed blowback system and requires none of the development work (roller delayed not being perfected until the 1950s, lever delayed being tougher to make and requiring pretty specific ammo pressure curve meaning optimal ammo every time or else malfunction).
 
Lots of weapons start life with a Drum mag and all evolve away and go stick for a variety of reasons.

Even the Finns evolved away from the successful Saumi 31 drum mag and went stick as did the Russians who successfully copied it in their PPSH 41, dropped it in subsequent versions of the gun.

Changing a stick mag is quicker

Reloading a stick mag is quicker

Carrying a Stick mag is easier

With the well known exceptions drum mags are less reliable than Stick mags

Generally stick mags are lighter than Drum mags (for the same total rounds carried)
My understanding of drum mag use by PPSh wielders was that the drum mag was only commonly used in pretty static defensive positions, otherwise, 1st mag of the day was drum (if available), rest was stick...
 
My understanding of drum mag use by PPSh wielders was that the drum mag was only commonly used in pretty static defensive positions, otherwise, 1st mag of the day was drum (if available), rest was stick...

That may have been the case later in the war but when it was introduced my understanding is that each weapon was issued with 2 Drum mags (only) that were intended to only be used with the weapon they were issued with due to the high tolerances involved in spamming them out so sharing drum mags might result in it not working with another PPSH 41.
 
Improved BAR. Pistol grip, fifty rd. drum or optional thirty rd. mag. Folding carrying handle, shorter barrel, muzzle break, improved spiked folding bi-pod and hooded front sight. Cartridge has also been downsized (let you guys sort what the new caliber would be).
A WWII RPD but in a larger caliber.

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And congrats you just made a 19 pound weapon a 30 pound weapon
 
How much do you think this would way? Shorter barrel and 30rd magazine.
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Shorter barrels are good, however the main problem is the wood and steal, the Ohio gun works version of the BAR, the HBAR weighs 11 pounds. Shortening the barrel removes some weight but not enough. The BAR is just too dam heavy.
 

Deleted member 1487

what the hell is this thing? Who in there right mind thought that this was a good idea?
The US army, which spent hundreds of millions of dollars on it and nearly 20 years of development:
https://modernfirearms.net/en/assault-rifles/u-s-a-assault-rifles/spiw-eng/
1433154852.jpg



Shorter barrels are good, however the main problem is the wood and steal, the Ohio gun works version of the BAR, the HBAR weighs 11 pounds. Shortening the barrel removes some weight but not enough. The BAR is just too dam heavy.
Nylon furniture baby:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Nylon_66
 
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