ww2 AHC: ideal automatic rifle...

I'm not sure what you think I'm arguing, but I'm not stumping for the US Army WW2 BAR. My initial point was that it was generally controllable due to the weight, not that it was particularly reliable or a great option compared to it's competitors. The core design was fine, as the Belgians were able to demonstrate with upgrades...thing is the US military decided not to actually make their version better. An improved version could have been workable is all I'm saying.
Heh. The Belgians kept working on the BAR, added bits from some other guns, turned into the MAG58 and sold it to the US in 1977, sixty years after Browning sold them the first version and replacing the M60 that replaced the Brownings. Victory! And an illustration of what the Ordnance Dept could have done if struck with a clue stick.

Personally I think the most likely route of getting the WW2 US to an intermediate cartridge is via the SMG/Light Rifle channel. Have some bright spark suggest a select-fire weapon in a light cartridge that covers both PDW and close assault requirements (.22 Spitfire?), Ordnance want it powered up a bit more in case the enemy is further away, and whoops you have 5.7x48 or something loaded to rifle pressures in a weapon which is good enough for most tasks on the battlefield.
 
The issue with this for ground use is the closed-bolt operation, which isn’t ideal. It also apparently at one point had problems with tearing cartridges apart during extraction, although I’m not clear if that was an ammunition problem or an engineering problem, or if it was ever fixed.

M1919 Browning was closed bolt too. M2 were closed for semiauto, open for full auto in ground use. case extraction on gas operation relates to timing, an easy fix
 
Start with the Garand, bore .276, using a cutdown .30-'06 round: .276x1.5" (or about 7x40mm).

Use a BAR-based mag.

If you can find somebody with a brainwave to conceive the wraparound bolt about two decades sooner, even better.

Is Bakelite to brittle for the furniture?
 

Deleted member 1487

I was literally going to post it. I swear, Gun Jesus appears in every gun-related thread.

It looks like one of the better BARs. Light, select-fire, thick handguard, 7mm.
Get it down to 5.56mm and we're closing in on an M16 :)
 

Deleted member 1487

More like a FAL. 7x57 Mauser is closer to 7.62x54 than 5.56x45.

As much as I talked shit on the BAR, the pistol-grip BARs are really sexy.
I just meant the look of the rifle.

If you have the right licensing and a few thousand $$$ you can get hitched to that sexy rifle.
 
Just give everyone a Bren, this makes the world a Warmer, happier place.

Need a carbine, cut the bren barrel down and do lots of shoulder exercises.
 
If you can find somebody with a brainwave to conceive the wraparound bolt about two decades sooner, even better.
????

I believe MG34 stocks were made from Bakelite during the late thirties, so it is a possibility if you feel it would gain you something. However I’m not sure what the advantages are vs wood/plywood/duramould etc.
 

FBKampfer

Banned
Theoretically bakekite should be a tad lighter and warping wouldn't be an issue.

But honestly the bren would just be an awful decision unless the goal is to bankrupt his magesty's government.

And frankly would be little better than the BAR.
 
Is Bakelite to brittle for the furniture?

Bakelite has a tendency to flake at the edges meaning it has to be rounded with no sharp edges. Probably not enough to compromise the structure but you can imagine a Sergeant Majors head exploding when everyones rifle furniture is covered in missing flakes.
 
You familiar with the MAC-10? Wrap the bolt around the rear face of the barrel & shorten the weapon. I imagine bullpup would never get past the "WTF?" stage in this era.
I believe MG34 stocks were made from Bakelite during the late thirties, so it is a possibility if you feel it would gain you something. However I’m not sure what the advantages are vs wood/plywood/duramould etc.
Thx for that.

I'm thinking hollow Bakelite (on a metal frame) is lighter than solid wood; weight is the enemy. (May also use the hollow stock to carry spare clips & cleaning tools.)
 

Deleted member 1487

I’d just licence the Bren in .276. It’s a damn good design.
Why not the Swedish BAR in 6.5mm?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1918_Browning_Automatic_Rifle#Sweden
Even less recoil and better ballistics, while being much lighter and had a quick change barrel:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bren_light_machine_gun
Mk1 & Mk2: 22.83 lb(10.35 kg), 25 lb (11.25 kg) loaded.

https://modernfirearms.net/en/machineguns/sweden-machineguns/kg-m21-m37-eng/
Weight, kg 8.9 (9.5 for m/37) with bipod
 

Toraach

Banned
So probably the main obstacle was a good cartridge and conservative heads in various weapons departments in various militaries. A technology wasn't that problem, people had already known how to produce selfrepeting/semiautomatic rifles. Garand, soviet rifles, czech rifles, french experiments, Maroszek etc. So just there was a matter of choising a good platform, and equip it with box magazines and a nice intermediante cartridge, instead of 8mm mauser, or 30-06 springfield. But among important people noone had enough imagination for it.
 

Bren was renown for being accurate. 30 rd mag trumps the 20 rd one.

So probably the main obstacle was a good cartridge and conservative heads in various weapons departments in various militaries. A technology wasn't that problem, people had already known how to produce selfrepeting/semiautomatic rifles. Garand, soviet rifles, czech rifles, french experiments, Maroszek etc. So just there was a matter of choising a good platform, and equip it with box magazines and a nice intermediante cartridge, instead of 8mm mauser, or 30-06 springfield. But among important people noone had enough imagination for it.

The sorta-kinda intermediate cartridges were known to work even before ww1, in many European militaries (Sweden, Norway, Greece, Italy, Russia) as well as in Japan. They were also known to kill big Afican game.
 
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