WW1 end in draw and Central Powers empires survive?

Wondering if someone can recomend a good alternate history for WW1 that ends with a draw or Central Powers victory and both German Empire and Austro-Hungarian empire survives during the interwar period and until WW2.

Thanks.
 
A-H was already doomed to fragment, in a long war (if without foreign intervention).

The German empire on the other hand, depends, how exactly does the war end? and for how long have they been fighting.
 

Deleted member 1487

A-H was already doomed to fragment, in a long war (if without foreign intervention).

The German empire on the other hand, depends, how exactly does the war end? and for how long have they been fighting.


I have to disagree with this. AH would have some troubles, not doubt, but it was not doomed to destruction even in a long war if 1914 went better. It was the military incompetence which really undermined confidence in the monarchy; without that loss of confidence the Habsburgs could survive postwar.
 
any ww1 draw is a german victory.

in case of austro hungarian break up the whole austrian part goes to germany, who's going to complain? many people. who would care, or would have the means to do something? no one.

so you're left with a germany on top of europe with a population large enough to rival russia, at least the russian part of russia.

three hurrahs for naval bases in the med! :cool:
 
Butterflies

Hmm there was some interesting discussion of a war of exhaustion peace with no USW/USA entry on the Naval Fiction Board a while back

http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/forums/67

Look for the threads whose title contains either "Consensus" or "Butterflies" At times it gets a bit obsessed with the naval but some good points are made
 
Wondering if someone can recomend a good alternate history for WW1 that ends with a draw or Central Powers victory and both German Empire and Austro-Hungarian empire survives during the interwar period and until WW2.

Thanks.

Well people liked my "Eleventh Hour" timeline that I developed and posted here, so being well-liked must be some definition of "good"

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
I have to disagree with this. AH would have some troubles, not doubt, but it was not doomed to destruction even in a long war if 1914 went better. It was the military incompetence which really undermined confidence in the monarchy; without that loss of confidence the Habsburgs could survive postwar.

Much depend on the economic situation post-war and the overall deaths, plus how the war ended aka if the A-H empire has gained something to show for the massacre, a draw can be even worse than a defeat in destroying the credibility of a ruling class.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
Shift in Priorities. I have TL, but stopped at end of war. Wiking has his TL. Sure some others but don't jump to min.

Now if we are getting to what makes A-H survive, we have to look at what broke it. The had a disaster in Galicia in 1914 (Wiking Conrad turns East is example of fixing), Italy entered war in 1915, disaster in Galicia in 1916, and followed by food crisis in late 1918. It took all of these items to break the empire. You can write a CP TL with all of these events, and then A-H is doomed to fail. Go to the other end with Wiking's idea, and it is almost certain to survive. The key is Germany did not want to annex Austria, so Germany wants Austria-Hungary to survive. So unless Germany is almost exhausted, it will prevent immediate breakup after the war. By force if necessary. I looked at this a lot for my TL, and concluded with a stronger German win, it is very, very likely A-H muddles on. All it took was stationing enough German divisions in Hungary (hint, they are there anyway IOTL) to "persuade" the Hungarian nobles they can't win a civil war. And then you get another 50 year compromise. And it is the German pattern. IOTL, they intentionally put units in Slovenia and Croatia that were not needed militarily as a symbol of which side Germany would come down on. Small units have big impact when backup by worlds best Army. Same idea as USA troops in Korea. Now to what is needed for each POD.

- Better 1914 is either better prewar army or 2nd Army goes east. Also lots of German improvement POD that can help such as Germany funds 9th Army in prewar years. Also plenty of Tsar messes up POD. Think anything that harms mobilization schedule.

- Italy not entering. Either really good CP diplomacy or better battlefield for CP. A lot of the previous POD tend to fix this one too.

- 1916 The success in this year was basically massive stupidity by Conrad. You need to replace him, basically.

- Food 1918. Easy - Romania 1 million tons of cereals. Keep Romania neutral. Fixing any of the other POD probably fixes this. And there are other possible POD here. The way the events tend to chain makes it easy to save A-H in some form.
 
or make Conrad's offensive in Italy do better, making it a combined offensive with the Germans, instead of Verdun attack, the CP cut off Italian armies and maybe knock it out of the war. Plus, Conrad doesn't strip eastern front, no easy Brusilov victory, probably no romania enters.
 
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