Hashasheen
Banned
Had they been worked out to their fullest extent, could any of them have worked?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wunderwaffen
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wunderwaffen
WunderWaffen, how plausible were they?
- Thread starter Hashasheen
- Start date
Most of them if not all were plausible. Whether it was worth the effort to go about creating them or employing them in combat is another thing. The Landkreuzer P 1500 Monster for example, could be built. It just would be useless in combat and not worth the effort to move around.
The night sights had potential (the Americans used larger versions for antitank and navy guns IIRC), and the jet engines worked just fine. The problem is that none of this was mature technology, so of course if developed to full potential, it could have worked. The point is that it wasn't, and I can't see how there would have been the time.
Well, except for the supertanks. That was just silly.
Well, except for the supertanks. That was just silly.
Deleted member 1487
By the end scientists were coming up with ridiculous ideas that they claimed could win the war just so that they would not be sent to the front. Most of it was nonsense that was never intended to work. What would be a better POD is if the Nazis actually had a centralized, organized research effort, rather than having competing efforts and also not to have Hitler cancel defensive research in 1940. It put back some useful technologies that could have helped in the air war over Germany in 1943-5
Looks to me like half that stuff was put into production and worked well.
The Kugelblitz sounds good. Two helicopters, seemingly fully functional, what role could they have had? This'un i never heard of!
Effective and in use. As for the infrared scope, it looks like it was successful though late and the M3 carbine was in service at around the same time and seemed to be a useful weapon.
The Kugelblitz sounds good. Two helicopters, seemingly fully functional, what role could they have had? This'un i never heard of!
Effective and in use. As for the infrared scope, it looks like it was successful though late and the M3 carbine was in service at around the same time and seemed to be a useful weapon.Many of them DID work, while others were simply idiotic. The Type XXI was an excellent design that worked very well, and several of the early jets worked exactly as designed. Others were so far ahead of the available tech that they were impossible as the Star Trek's Enterprise-E. The giant tanks were just stupid, they have often made me wonder just how many people Goring was selling dope to during the war.
A better question is: Could thay have changed the eventual outcome of the war? The answer to that is a resounding NO!
A better question is: Could thay have changed the eventual outcome of the war? The answer to that is a resounding NO!
Lots of strange Allied projects too - I remember seeing a picture of a British giant wheel thing that was meant to hurl itself over Normandy fortifications...
Of course some of the idiot seeming projects actually worked; for instance the bat-bomb.
Of course some of the idiot seeming projects actually worked; for instance the bat-bomb.
The Heinkel He 162 appears to have had scary good potential.
Developed in record time, built using easily available resources; the fastest WWII jet, considered by some to be the best jet of the era.
What if it had been in widespread use at the beginning of Operation Pointblank?
Is that plausible, could you advance its commissioning by two years? What R&D needed to be done in the meantime?
Developed in record time, built using easily available resources; the fastest WWII jet, considered by some to be the best jet of the era.
What if it had been in widespread use at the beginning of Operation Pointblank?
Is that plausible, could you advance its commissioning by two years? What R&D needed to be done in the meantime?
Seeing as how 70% of German transport was by wagon, it would seem to me that wasting resources on these wonder weapons, regardless of if they worked or not, was stupid, and merely kept designers off the front line.
The Me262 could have been fully operational a year before it actually was if Hitler hadnt meddled in its design. It was an incredible fighter, and he wanted a ground support bomber to replace the Stuka. What effect would a jet fighter have had on allied bombing raids in 1943?
The V-rocket programs were successful, and terrifying.
If Germany had stuck to submarines and jets, it might not have won the war, but it could have delayed its end.
The Me262 could have been fully operational a year before it actually was if Hitler hadnt meddled in its design. It was an incredible fighter, and he wanted a ground support bomber to replace the Stuka. What effect would a jet fighter have had on allied bombing raids in 1943?
The V-rocket programs were successful, and terrifying.
If Germany had stuck to submarines and jets, it might not have won the war, but it could have delayed its end.
Deleted member 1487
Myths about the Me262 don't die on this board. It was not a good fighter and was not delayed by Hitler. I was ready when it was able to be produced. In fact the real reason the engines had so many (many) problems was that it was lacking the necessary metals that Germany did not have access to by this point in the war. It was a first generation jet that had a lot of problems that could have been ironed out later on if Germany was still around, but the war was over in '45 not '47-8.
Germany should have focused research and diplomacy to be realistic. Technology was ornamentation when the aims were completely off. The only "Wunderwaffe" that could have won the war would have been the atom bomb, but that was impossible for Germany. And even if they had it, the Brits would have used weaponized anthrax and gas. The war was unwinnable with the Nazis at the helm.
Germany should have focused research and diplomacy to be realistic. Technology was ornamentation when the aims were completely off. The only "Wunderwaffe" that could have won the war would have been the atom bomb, but that was impossible for Germany. And even if they had it, the Brits would have used weaponized anthrax and gas. The war was unwinnable with the Nazis at the helm.
I think about the only Wunderwaffe which could have changed the eventual outcome of the war would have been more aggressive investment to submarine and submarine weapons development. Type XXI arriving en masse in 1942 or 1943 with FAT's, LUT's and Zaunkönig T-5's could have had a massive impact upon the war.
Naturally the problem is that according to Clay Blair the Type XXI's in service in 1945 were a total mess and would not have been as combat durable as often presented.
Perhaps a more modest goal would have been a Type IX modified in similar ways to post-war US Guppy -modifications, ie. streamlining, increased battery capability and capability to fire underwater. Type IX is still rather small, but on the other hand fairly similar-sized British T-class subs were modified in similar ways too. This should present no such hard technical problems as were encountered during Type XXI program. Type IX "Guppies" could also act as training subs for eventual Type XXI's.
A program like this, however, would have to start in ca. early 1941 to have a effect in Spring 1943. In hindsight the writing was on the wall for U-boats already during then but Dönitz seems to have not understood the interaction between developing technology and changed operational realities even in OTL. To have the man to do adequate contingency planning would be a stretch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Underwater_Propulsion_Power_Program
CanadianGoose
Banned
Centralization has severe side effect of giving an undue weight to ideas generated by scientists heading the research effort, as there's no competition to prove them wrong. Even USSR (as much as it was crazy about centralization and organization) preferred to use competing teams, if possible at all. Single-team approach was used only to close known technological gaps (for example, there was no point to have multiple teams to work on nukes, as rough idea was known to be working and it was just a matter of fine-tuning technology).
Deleted member 1487
Perhaps, but it is widely accepted that German research effort was in shambles due to ridiculously comical mismanagement. My information comes from a book about their research paths and why such wacky ideas kept popping up. The Germans in fact developed radar independently with 50(!) different research teams. No one knew what the others were doing, as the economy was divided into fiefs and all were running their own independent war efforts. If they has a system more like the US, in that it was understood what was actually going on in the different research teams, then perhaps research might have been more productively focused.
CanadianGoose
Banned
Yes I know. But, if you think about it, US produced not more but less designs per ounce of gold invested. They (Americans) excelled in manufacturing, but no streamlining of German research process is going to change THAT.
I would suspect that only the Type XXI U-boat, if made available in sufficient numbers early enough, would have had the potential to actually change the course of the war. The supertanks are a joke and, has been noted here and in other threads, he potential value of the jets was only on defense - and has been overrated. The V1 and V2 were monumental wastes of effort. I think Terrypinkona's point is good. Sometimes it is the most mundane stuff which could make the most difference.
They were built in pieces by non-naval contractors, and assembled on site. They then had to go through extensive refits because (duh) the contractors had no naval experience.
I believe two were operational at the end of the war.
Have them built earlier and by shipyards and that helps, but of course Germany still loses.
Hashasheen
Banned
Thanks to everyone who posted, but I wasn't actually asking if they would turn the war around, only if they were plausible. Something to be added to my TL is some old fashioned corporate/state secret theft.
Something to be added to my TL is some old fashioned corporate/state secret theft.