Would Stalin have committed suicide if Germans took Moscow?

Weather played the part, but it equaled out. It was not any easier for the Soviets.

Point is, as always in war, the logistics. German Heer has no ability to supply troops going to Moscow. They could adequatly logistically cover only a stretch of 500 kilometers beyond railheads. In winter weather much less. They hoped to capture Moscow on a bluff and once that failed, that was it. They lost the war. From then on it was just the matter of time. Nazi Germany was not capable of fighting war of attrition that was required to defeat Soviet Union. At least not under Hitler. And probably not under Nazi system or anything resembling Nazi system.

It was worse than trying to capture it on a bluff, Halder was asking Army Group Center to pull off a double-envelopment when it was already overextended at its starting position. The attempt didn't even, as it turned out, do much more than force the Soviet defenders in front of Moscow to their very utmost........and without the USSR tapping into the huge forces behind the city, forces that for the second straight time in a German strategic offensive the Germans had no remote idea they ever existed.
 
Stalin had plans and infrastructure set up to allow him to flee East if necessary. I don't think he would have had domestic political problems if Moscow fell either, as the Politburo, already dominated by Stalin anyway, would probably value continuity and the appearance of stability over the chance to improve leadership with someone else at the helm. Stalin had made sure that there was no one ready to step into his shoes.

If the Germans somehow managed to take Moscow, the Soviets would face difficulties in launching counter-attacks, but the resources are still there to turn the tide against the Germans, and vulnerabilities in the German lines will be found and exploited. The war might even end up coming to a close sooner with a more effective Soviet counterattack in 1942 (more effective due to the more precarious position of the German army).
 
and without the USSR tapping into the huge forces behind the city, forces that for the second straight time in a German strategic offensive the Germans had no remote idea they ever existed.

To be frank, after Kiev, how could they expect there were even more Soviets left to fight?
 
I wouldn't say they were trying to force in on a cheat. Hitler was thinking of stopping the Center for the winter because the Germans were getting more licking than expected. But then, they captured Kiew, and it allowed for the early boldness to return.

Weather was a handicap to the Germans, more so than to Russians, much more so.

Bullshit. The Germans lost this offensive just like they lost all their others after Marita and Punishment: no logistics for too few men for far too over-ambitious a goal relative to the means to achieve it. The Soviets were equally handicapped by the weather, but their primary handicap was that they'd lost 10 million men in six months. They never recovered from those losses of men and material at any point in the war.
 
To be frank, after Kiev, how could they expect there were even more Soviets left to fight?

Given that Kiev and Smolensk, both prolonged tactical victories that were ultimately barren of strategic results, had followed a view 15 days into the war that the border battles had ended the war, the surprising bit is that they fell for this exact same concept twice in six months, then a third time in 1942. :rolleyes: There are very, very real reasons I have the deepest of contempt for Hitler's barbarians.
 

b12ox

Banned
No, it was in every way due to the reality that Operation Typhoon was logistically impossible. A double-envelopment of Moscow was outside the capabilities of the Germans in the winter of 1941-2, and the Germans knew logistical issues were there but Halder had staked so much on his undermining Hitler's orders that the Wehrmacht had no other option.
I am not sure what was there going beetween Hitler and Halder. For the Gemans,at that point in late November/early December there was no way to break it or suround the city. German mobility was cut short. They were getting ready to dig in and wait. The Russians said no. For Typhoon, decisive were the rains and mud that stopped the Army Center, then the lack of winter clothing and logistics to give it a try when finally there. I am not sayig they would take Moscow, but they had a chance with better cards to give it a shot.
 
I am not sure what was there going beetween Hitler and Halder. For the Gemans,at that point in late November/early December there was no way to break it or suround the city. German mobility was cut short. They were getting ready to dig in and wait. The Russians said no. For Typhoon, decisive were the rains and mud that stopped the Army Center, then the lack of winter clothing and logistics to give it a try when finally there. I am not sayig they would take Moscow, but they had a chance with better cards to give it a shot.

Modern historians, the ones that looked into the reality behind the historiography, have noted that the German generals engaged in a lot of lies and created a mythology of infallibility. For Typhoon, victory was a no-go. The weather did not stop the Germans, the Red Army stopped them.
 
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