Would Notre Dame still be as successful if they joined the Big Ten earlier in time?

Okay, so in spite of the myth by Notre Dame fans that they always wanted to be independent and independence is a "cherished tradition" (not to diss ND fans, but i've read that in the Rockne days and even into the 50's The Irish wanted to be a part of the Big Ten. So what if they did join at some point? Sure they would still be good, but would they be the National Superpower that they were as an independent

I'm thinking of a timeline with the P.O.D in the 1890's or early 1900's where instead of having the Iowa Hawkeyes joining the Big Ten in the 1890's they stay with Nebraska, Kansas and Missouri, and go on to found some sort of equivalent of the big 8. For those who don't know, I am a big Cornhuskers fan and early in our history, Iowa was one of our bigger rivals, even after they left for the Big Ten, and i've never known why Iowa left to go with the big ten over what would become the big 8 other than they were more progressive as far as race went (Mizzou was a segregated team,and I know that both Iowa and Nebraska had black players in the old days and Missouri did not play them).

Anyways, the Big Ten will have 8 charter members (Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan, and Chicago). Eventually Ohio State will join in 1909 as in OTL and the league will be the Big 9). Eventually as in OTL Chicago will drop football in the 30's and the Big 8 will look to add new members after WW2. Michigan State is obvious as a choice in spite of Michigan's opposition, however some think that schools like Iowa, Pitt, Penn State and Notre Dame would make good members but Notre Dame had the power. I think ND would have accepted in the 40's (i'd like your opinions though). Anyway, if the Irish did join, them and Michigan State wouldn't be official members in football until 1953 (like Michigan state in OTL). Still Notre Dame would have a lot of success. They would tie for a Big Ten title in 66 (and maybe get a Rose Bowl bid, though they might decline it as in OTL) and probably would be very good in the 70's even with the wars between Woody and Bo.

I also would like to detail other conferences. I think if Iowa stays in the future big 8, I wonder if the conference would stay at six (adding Iowa State and K-State to the original teams of Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, and Mizzou) and waits to add Colorado and another western school (maybe Colorado State or Wyoming) in the 50's or adds Oklahoma and Okie State in the 20's (they seem like they'd be better fits in the SWC). I think the SEC and the ACC stay the same for the most part as does the PAC 8, though I'm not sure they'd add Arizona and AZ state if they were part of a stronger WAC with Colorado.

There are a lot of possibilities, but my main focus would be on Notre Dame in the Big Ten. So, any suggestions
 
Okay, so in spite of the myth by Notre Dame fans that they always wanted to be independent and independence is a "cherished tradition" (not to diss ND fans, but i've read that in the Rockne days and even into the 50's The Irish wanted to be a part of the Big Ten. So what if they did join at some point? Sure they would still be good, but would they be the National Superpower that they were as an independent

I'm thinking of a timeline with the P.O.D in the 1890's or early 1900's where instead of having the Iowa Hawkeyes joining the Big Ten in the 1890's they stay with Nebraska, Kansas and Missouri, and go on to found some sort of equivalent of the big 8. For those who don't know, I am a big Cornhuskers fan and early in our history, Iowa was one of our bigger rivals, even after they left for the Big Ten, and i've never known why Iowa left to go with the big ten over what would become the big 8 other than they were more progressive as far as race went (Mizzou was a segregated team,and I know that both Iowa and Nebraska had black players in the old days and Missouri did not play them).

Anyways, the Big Ten will have 8 charter members (Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan, and Chicago). Eventually Ohio State will join in 1909 as in OTL and the league will be the Big 9). Eventually as in OTL Chicago will drop football in the 30's and the Big 8 will look to add new members after WW2. Michigan State is obvious as a choice in spite of Michigan's opposition, however some think that schools like Iowa, Pitt, Penn State and Notre Dame would make good members but Notre Dame had the power. I think ND would have accepted in the 40's (i'd like your opinions though). Anyway, if the Irish did join, them and Michigan State wouldn't be official members in football until 1953 (like Michigan state in OTL). Still Notre Dame would have a lot of success. They would tie for a Big Ten title in 66 (and maybe get a Rose Bowl bid, though they might decline it as in OTL) and probably would be very good in the 70's even with the wars between Woody and Bo.

I also would like to detail other conferences. I think if Iowa stays in the future big 8, I wonder if the conference would stay at six (adding Iowa State and K-State to the original teams of Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, and Mizzou) and waits to add Colorado and another western school (maybe Colorado State or Wyoming) in the 50's or adds Oklahoma and Okie State in the 20's (they seem like they'd be better fits in the SWC). I think the SEC and the ACC stay the same for the most part as does the PAC 8, though I'm not sure they'd add Arizona and AZ state if they were part of a stronger WAC with Colorado.

There are a lot of possibilities, but my main focus would be on Notre Dame in the Big Ten. So, any suggestions

I don't think ND would be as good in that ATL, they would probably lose more often than not to Michigan and Ohio State, especially in the late 60s and 70s. ND as independent allowed them to play 6-7 cupcakes during this period and they only needed to get up for 2-3 big games the entire season. Beating Michigan, OSU, and USC all in the same season (plus MSU when they were good in the 1960s and Illinois in the 80s) would be too much. The only way ND can get through a regular season undefeated in a Big 10 conference would probably involve a season where they didn't have to play both OSU and Michigan, plus they would have to drop their rivalry with USC.

ND in the Big Ten would butterfly away their 1973 and 1977 national championships for sure, and probably 1988, as they would have to share the title with an undefeated Miami (because they almost assuredly wouldn't add the Canes to that stacked a schedule)

Iowa remaining in the Big 8 is very interesting because they have wrestling ties with some of the schools in that old conference. I think OU and OkST, and Colorado are added to the conference as in OTL to create a stronger league that virtually guaranteed an undefeated champion a shot at the national title. If OU went to the SWC it might remain viable after SMU gets the death penalty.

As for the SEC and ACC, I agree they stay almost the same as in OTL, but maybe the SEC takes S. Carolina earlier than in OTL and makes a run at Florida St
 
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I forgot about Hawkeye wrestling as well. They did have history with a lot of the Big 8 schools in wrestling because the big 8 had only 5 schools, while I think every Big Ten school has it. However i would base it more on the fact that they are west of the Mississippi and because you'd think they would become rivals with Iowa State and Mizzou, and Nebraska. Granted Iowa City is just as far from these places as they are from Minnesota, wisconsin and Illinois, but they would be a good fit in either

As for the Oklahoma schools, I've never known why the left the SWC. I know they were members from 1915 until 1920, but as to why they joined the Mo Valley, I don't really know. Colorado is another one i don't know, though I assume it has to do with competitiveness and the media market, and at the time they only played what would be the northern schools in MWC (utah, BYU,Utah st, Csu, wyoming, I think Denver U also had fb, so there was no concept of the WAC yet.
 
I don't have an answer to this question. But I am going to harass you in all of your post untill you agree to continue the Cleveland Rocks TL. :D
 
I don't have an answer to this question. But I am going to harass you in all of your post untill you agree to continue the Cleveland Rocks TL. :D

I know I know, i've run into a few snags with that one though, and I just don't know if I want to continue it. I wanted to make it realistic, and it kind of was, but who knows who it would have happened.
 
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