Would Mary Queen of Scots remarry if...

[Olena]

Say that Mary, Queen of Scots had begat a son by François II of France around July of 1560, and then been widowed per OTL later that December. We'll refer to the son as Henrii III (christened: Henrii James). As the queen mother of France, would she likely consider remarriage?

Any child she bore after this point, especially of royal blood, may pose a threat to her French son's Scottish inheritance.

If you consider another post I did where Mary wed the Archduke Charles II of Inner Austria, I'd like to say she might consider this as another potential match, but would Charles agree to marry her with her own heir-apparent already in the cradle?

 

[kasumigenx]

Say that Mary, Queen of Scots had begat a son by François II of France around July of 1560, and then been widowed per OTL later that December. We'll refer to the son as Henrii III (christened: Henrii James). As the queen mother of France, would she likely consider remarriage?

I know that Eleanor of Aquitaine did so after giving birth to a son, but she was also not already a queen regnant of her own nation as was Mary. Any child she bore after this point, especially of royal blood, may pose a threat to her French son's Scottish inheritance.

If you consider another post I did where Mary wed the Archduke Charles II of Inner Austria, I'd like to say she might consider this as another potential match, but would Charles agree to marry her with her own heir-apparent already in the cradle?

Eleanor of Aquitaine had only two daughters that is why she was divorced from her husband..

 

[Tyler96]

Say that Mary, Queen of Scots had begat a son by François II of France around July of 1560, and then been widowed per OTL later that December. We'll refer to the son as Henrii III (christened: Henrii James). As the queen mother of France, would she likely consider remarriage?

I know that Eleanor of Aquitaine did so after giving birth to a son, but she was also not already a queen regnant of her own nation as was Mary. Any child she bore after this point, especially of royal blood, may pose a threat to her French son's Scottish inheritance.

If you consider another post I did where Mary wed the Archduke Charles II of Inner Austria, I'd like to say she might consider this as another potential match, but would Charles agree to marry her with her own heir-apparent already in the cradle?

I'm not sure the French would allow their dowager Queen and the ruler of Scotland in her own right remarry with their Habsburg arch-enemies (the Italian Wars are just concluded). Even if Mary has abandoned her son in France and returned to Scotland (whatever the likelihood of that is) she might not be too keen on a marital alliance which could put her in conflict with her own son.

Also, didn't Charles spend the 1560s in a (hopelessly futile) chase for Elizabeth's hand? Would he settle for Mary when the greater prize of Elizabeth is still (ostensibly) open for marriage?

 

[desmirelle]

At some point Mary HAS to go to Scotland or lose it. So, she'll leave the baby in France (because that's what was done) and go to Scotland. She had a country to run and couldn't run it from France. (Because, with Calvinism taking over the church in Scotland they would be likely to find themselves a like-minded king if she doesn't.)

 

[mcdnab]

The problem for the Scots Lords is that this is very much the worst nightmare - a Catholic Queen and an heir who is a) going to be raised Catholic and b) is going to rule a much larger foreign power with the wherewithal to crush them if he chooses. I would expect even stronger support from England for the Lords of the Congregation (if not directly from Elizabeth then certainly from her council) and Elizabeth is going to make a play of keeping the Spanish onside for as long as possible. The pressure on Elizabeth to marry is going to be even stronger as the council will move heaven and earth to prevent a Catholic French succession.

As a widow Mary is going to have major struggles in France - her and her husband had been very much pawns in the hands of her Guise relations - as a widow they are going to really push for her to be named regent for her son - if the Guise's keep the upper hand (unlike in OTL) then the religious conflict in France is going to get bad very very quickly. Mary's return to France in OTL was essentially because a) she was childless and b) Catherine de Medici wanted her gone and c) there was nowhere else for her - here she has very strong motivation to stay in France - her remarriage again is going to depend on if she can marry again and retain the equivalent status - if she marries beneath her then she has to make sure it isn't too low so as to loose her position at the French Court.
I wouldn't rule out Mary making a misalliance due to love and losing her regency and custody of her son given her character though.

 

[desmirelle]

I could see the Scots finding the bastard or grand-bastard of James ?? and putting him on the throne. Then we have war between the members of the 'auld alliance' and unless Mary consents to wedding where the Scottish Lairds wish, she's not gonna be queen. Unless said bastard is handsome and charming and then there's no trouble at all, Mary will wed him.....she always had more heart than brains.

ETA: she's too young to be regent for her son. France won't allow it. The father's family will take control of the child and if Mary and her mama don't like it, they can sail to Scotland....where we run into the above mentioned scenario.....

 

[mcdnab]

The main influences on Mary will be her uncles the Duke of Guise and Cardinal Guise - both were on the royal council at Francis II's death and are likely to manipulate things to their further advantage - whilst Mary is young she is hardly a child - the Guise I think will want her nominally regent though power will rest with the Duke of Guise and his family. The right to the regency probably would rest with the first prince of the blood (Antoine de Bourbon) who had a good relationship with Catherine de Medici (which is why in OTL he stood aside to enable her to become regent for her second son) - however he was uncertain on religion and his brother Conde was their nominal leader at this period. Given that it is likely the Guise will try and have Mary named regent despite her youth in order to confound the protestants (and at this period Catherine was not really bothered about persecuting them as long as they were loyal to the crown). Mary's mother is dead by her widowhood and her biggest female influence is her grandmother Antoinette de Bourbon another very strong character.
As to Scotland - there is a ready made and available heir generally favourable to the Protestant lords and that is the Earl of Arran - though Hamilton remained fiercely loyal to Mary throughout her troubled reign.
Throughout that period the Scots never really thought of looking elsewhere in terms of the bastards of James V and his father James IV - largely because they were never going to be able to command enough support on their own.

 

[Tyler96]

I could see the Scots finding the bastard or grand-bastard of James ?? and putting him on the throne.

Not a Hamilton or a Lennox Stuart? Are there any precedents for bastard kings in Scotland?

 

[Olena]

Eleanor of Aquitaine had only two daughters that is why she was divorced from her husband..

Ah, thank you. It was a misread on my part.

 

[Olena]

I'm not sure the French would allow their dowager Queen and the ruler of Scotland in her own right remarry with their Habsburg arch-enemies (the Italian Wars are just concluded). Even if Mary has abandoned her son in France and returned to Scotland (whatever the likelihood of that is) she might not be too keen on a marital alliance which could put her in conflict with her own son.

Also, didn't Charles spend the 1560s in a (hopelessly futile) chase for Elizabeth's hand? Would he settle for Mary when the greater prize of Elizabeth is still (ostensibly) open for marriage?

He did, actually, but that was in part because Mary Stuart shot down the proposition almost as soon as it was brought to her attention by her Guise uncles (the real power in France). However, say she saw this as a means to support her reign in Scotland. After all, it was her status as Scots royalty, not French nobility that bought her the French crown. Also, her son is in-effect the Duke of Rothesay, so it's her duty as the current sovereign of Scotland to secure her heir-apparent's inheritance.

For Charles to wed Mary in place of Elizabeth he gains a Catholic bride, and the entry to the British Isles, as per what seemed to be his goal at the time. As for the conflict, in OTL Charles IX of France married the daughter of the Holy Roman Emperor (Elisabeth of Austria) without much interjection from the French nobility. Also, Elisabeth of Valois, sister of François II and Charles IX, was the second wife of Philip II of Spain, yet another Hapsburg.

Charles would be able to provide Mary with some support in maintaining her hold on Scotland, likely to introduce Jesuit reformation as he did in his realm of Inner-Austria. Also, as per OTL, Charles's son later became Holy Roman Emperor Ferdinand II. If he and Mary were to have a male heir to achieve the same, the HRE and King of France would be brothers.

 

[mcdnab]

Her biggest problem in attracting a second husband in OTL was in part due to a bit of a shortage of eligible men willing to put themselves forward of a high enough status to satisfy Mary's vanity - to be honest Elizabeth was always the better catch (England was richer and frankly more stable - religious issues aside). As Queen Mother of France aswell as a Queen Regnant of Scotland she becomes more attractive certainly - but most are aware that Scotland is a rebellious nation used to an absentee monarch - that even the French had grown tired of exerting men and money to try and pacify it and bring it back to the true Church.
The Guise's primary aim is to retain control of the infant King and thereby ensure a Catholic France etc - there concern for Scotland is as weak as Mary's care for it was.
In these circumstances there may well be a reluctance on behalf of both Mary and her uncles to see her remarry too quickly - she would almost certainly lose custody of her son and that could mean the Guise's losing control too - as the natural replacement would be the Queen Mother Catherine and the higher ranking prince's of the Blood.
Mary has a choice put her son and the home of her childhood above her Crown and the home of her birth - I think she will always chose France over Scotland.
IF she does marry Charles then they will have to return to Scotland and leave her son in France - now in OTL her lack of a strong commitment to return Scotland to Rome was a point that got her a lot of criticism from Philip II - backed up by Charles she might be willing to take a stronger line (and Scots Catholics would at this early point have supported her) but she needs money and men to actually do that and the only money pouring into Scotland was going to the Protestant Lords courtesy of Elizabeth I's council.
And if she has abandoned her son in France then I suspect Catherine de Medici will soon take control of the reigns in France excluding the Guise.
The points above are true there was little real issue with Valois/Hapsburg matches despite the political relations between France, Spain and The Empire.

 

[desmirelle]

Wouldn't Mary's firstborn son also be heir apparent to the throne of Scotland in addition to being King of France?

 

[mcdnab]

Yes he would and there is little either side can do about it - Mary's marriage contract also had secret clauses that in the event of her death without issue the throne of Scotland would pass to the heirs of Henri II though in reality that would have been hard to enforce.
This is why it is the Scots worst nightmare in OTL they got a decent deal - Mary returned home and married an aristocratic commoner for love - resulting in one son which in effect meant her reign was weakened because if she annoyed enough nobles they could depose or murder her in favour of her son - removing Mary gave them an infant King to be brought up in the Protestant faith.
These circumstances make it much more difficult for the Scots and the English - the Scots face having to depose Mary and her line in order to get a more favourable succession risking war with France and Elizabeth now has an increased need to name an alternate heir if she remains unwed because there is no Protestant King north of the border and the French Queen Mother and her son are also going to be able to claim the throne even during Elizabeth's lifetime if they wish to.

 

[Olena]

Her biggest problem in attracting a second husband in OTL was in part due to a bit of a shortage of eligible men willing to put themselves forward of a high enough status to satisfy Mary's vanity - to be honest Elizabeth was always the better catch (England was richer and frankly more stable - religious issues aside). As Queen Mother of France aswell as a Queen Regnant of Scotland she becomes more attractive certainly - but most are aware that Scotland is a rebellious nation used to an absentee monarch - that even the French had grown tired of exerting men and money to try and pacify it and bring it back to the true Church.
The Guise's primary aim is to retain control of the infant King and thereby ensure a Catholic France etc - there concern for Scotland is as weak as Mary's care for it was.
In these circumstances there may well be a reluctance on behalf of both Mary and her uncles to see her remarry too quickly - she would almost certainly lose custody of her son and that could mean the Guise's losing control too - as the natural replacement would be the Queen Mother Catherine and the higher ranking prince's of the Blood.
Mary has a choice put her son and the home of her childhood above her Crown and the home of her birth - I think she will always chose France over Scotland.
IF she does marry Charles then they will have to return to Scotland and leave her son in France - now in OTL her lack of a strong commitment to return Scotland to Rome was a point that got her a lot of criticism from Philip II - backed up by Charles she might be willing to take a stronger line (and Scots Catholics would at this early point have supported her) but she needs money and men to actually do that and the only money pouring into Scotland was going to the Protestant Lords courtesy of Elizabeth I's council.
And if she has abandoned her son in France then I suspect Catherine de Medici will soon take control of the reigns in France excluding the Guise.
The points above are true there was little real issue with Valois/Hapsburg matches despite the political relations between France, Spain and The Empire.

Leaving France doesn't mean that Mary has abandoned power for herself and her family. After all, the Guises have what they wanted all along—a Guise-Stuart king in the Valois line. If anything, in Mary's absence, they control the king. Catherine, as Queen Dowager, is to be named the king's guardian, but rest-assured it is in name alone. The Duke of Guise and his brothers are the real power behind the throne by order of the queen mother, and the backing of their own military forces and that of the royal army.

Charles and Mary are a nearly-unstoppable force when unleashed upon the nation of Scotland. His military forces help to subdue subdue any rebellions, and measures are taken to restore good-faith and trust in the Church of Rome and the Scottish queen. Mary's tender heart causes her to reach out to her subjects, improving their living conditions in the name of the Church. If the people do not love their queen and her new consort, they most assuredly fear the pair—the public burning of John Knox and James Stewart as heretics serving as the example of the sovereign's unwillingness to tolerate insubordination.

Her oldest sons by Charles are to have a Scottish upbringing, and to act as future Viceroys for their brother the king of France in Scotland, should their mother the queen pass.

 

[mcdnab]

But why leave France - her home for much of her life and her son in order to return to a country she hasn't seen for years - it makes no political sense for Mary unless she is forced into it as she was in OTL.
And I am sorry but it does mean her giving up any control and authority over her son possibly for good - very few Queen Consorts who remarried and had to move remained in control of their children.
To retain control Guise would be better betrothing the widowed Queen to her 11 year old cousin his son Henry - Mary would not have minded the age gap that much (would only be 7/8 years) when she herself had considered trying to marry her nine-year-old brother in law in OTL.
If you honestly think Catherine, Bourbon and Conde are going to accept the Duke of Guise taking full control without Mary present I think it is unlikely - if Mary leaves then they will move to take control plunging France into crisis irrespective of who eventually comes out on top (and Mary can kiss goodbye to French troops for Scotland).
Where is Charles' military force coming from? His brother the Emperor was largely opposed to his match with Mary in OTL and was warmer on the proposed marriage with Elizabeth I (it stumbled because of Elizabeth's reluctance, religion and the fact Maximilian wanted guarantees that if Elizabeth died childless Charles would succeed her) - and given Maximilian II's view on religion he is not going to provide Imperial troops to crush rebellious Scots for a country that will never legally pass to his brother (unless Mary grants him the crown matrimonial which i doubt) equally Philip II is not really in a position to offer much in the 1560s.

Charles himself certainly favoured the counter-reformation but was also conciliatory towards protestants in his own Austrian territories so a harsh counter reformation in Scotland is unlikely - Mary herself was a moderate when left to her own devices.
Guise support for Charles was in the circumstances of Mary struggling in Scotland as a childless widow. Keeping Mary in France gives Guise far more leverage than sending her back to Scotland.

Scotland in this period was riven with clan rivalry, political instability and religious strife to say nothing that any attempt to bring foreign troops into Scotland will lead to conflict with England irrespective of Elizabeth's dislike of rebellion against a lawful sovereign.