Would It Matter if the Confederates Took Little Round Top at Gettysburg?

What would have happened in the Confederates had taken Little Round Top?

  • The North might have lost the war

    Votes: 3 4.1%
  • The North might have lost the battle

    Votes: 22 29.7%
  • The Army of the Potomac would be in a pretty serious situation

    Votes: 24 32.4%
  • The Army of the Potomac would have been in an annoying situation

    Votes: 20 27.0%
  • Nothing really. Little Round Top didn't really matter at all. It's just hype.

    Votes: 5 6.8%

  • Total voters
    74

Anaxagoras

Banned
The historiography of the Civil War is replete with statements about critical moments in particular battles being decisive. You often read statements like "if so-and-so had done such-and-such, the [insert army's name here] might have been destroyed." And yet decisive victories were extremely rare in the Civil War and I am rather skeptical of most of these purported lost opportunities.

A case in point is Little Round Top at Gettysburg, which was heroically defended by Colonel Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain and the 20th Maine Infantry Regiment on July 2 (as well as several other Union regiments whose presence at the spot is often overlooked). Now, it's clear from a glance at the battlefield that Little Round Top is a tactically important location and no one should discount the incredible bravery the Maine soldiers displayed in defending their position.

But can we really take seriously the oft-repeated assertion that if Chamberlain and his men had failed, the Army of the Potomac would have lost the battle? Indeed, some people go so far as to claim that if Chamberlain and his men had failed, the Union might have lost the war! Ken Burns, in his epic miniseries, says that Chamberlain "saved the Union army and possibly the Union itself".

So, seriously, how important was Little Round Top? What would have happened if the Confederates had managed to take it?
 
IF they took the hill around the time OTL when the Maine was running out of ammo there would be to late in the day IIRC to continue fighting. They would have the hill during the night and the next day we would either see Meade withdrawn during the night or as every game about Gettsyburg plays out when you allow the south to take the hill Meade throws a corps to retake the hill.
 
Depends on who reinforces first. If the Confederates hold the hill it creates a sort of double fishook & probablly Meade retreats. At that point both armies are exhausted, Lee is deep in Northern territory with a near empty supply train & his cavalry is out of communication. Meade can fall back to multiple suply sources. Reinforcements can be scrounged for the Union army, Lee has none unless his cavalry is found.

Tech question. Who and how large was Meades uncommitted reserve that afternoon? Had every formation of significance been committed?
 
I seem to recall, and correct me if I'm wrong that Meade never really wanted to fight at G-burg anyways and preferred a fight along what was called the Pipe Creek Line. :confused: So perhaps instead of a fight there if he has a situation where he doesn't like to fight an exposed position/flank the AoP fights it out elsewhere? :cool:
 
I seem to recall, and correct me if I'm wrong that Meade never really wanted to fight at G-burg anyways and preferred a fight along what was called the Pipe Creek Line. :confused: So perhaps instead of a fight there if he has a situation where he doesn't like to fight an exposed position/flank the AoP fights it out elsewhere? :cool:

Well my understanding is that even if Lee had beaten him at Gettysburg he could have simply fallen back to Pipe Creek and dug in, and Lee had no means of forcing him out. The "Battle of Pipe Creek" would probably have shattered Lee's army as badly as OTL's battle (more likely worse) and left it vulnerable to a serious counter attack by Meade, with a longer line of retreat.

So contrary to popular belief winning at Gettysburg probably doesn't do Lee much good.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
So contrary to popular belief winning at Gettysburg probably doesn't do Lee much good.

Lee is certainly not going to destroy the Army of the Potomac or capture Washington City, but it's not correct to say that a Confederate victory at Gettysburg does no good. Lee has still won the battle and, after taking some time to forage liberally across Southern Pennsylvania, he will pull back to Virginia in good order. Public opinion was always more focused on the East than it was on the West (much to Lincoln's annoyance), so news of the fall of Vicksburg would be largely negated by news of the Union defeat at Gettysburg.
 
Lee is certainly not going to destroy the Army of the Potomac or capture Washington City, but it's not correct to say that a Confederate victory at Gettysburg does no good. Lee has still won the battle and, after taking some time to forage liberally across Southern Pennsylvania, he will pull back to Virginia in good order. Public opinion was always more focused on the East than it was on the West (much to Lincoln's annoyance), so news of the fall of Vicksburg would be largely negated by news of the Union defeat at Gettysburg.

My concern is with a win at Gettysburg he might feel invincible and decide to chase the AoTP rather than forage and run, giving Meade another chance to inflict a defeat on him.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
My concern is with a win at Gettysburg he might feel invincible and decide to chase the AoTP rather than forage and run, giving Meade another chance to inflict a defeat on him.

It's quite possible. He always seems to have imagined he could win a Cannae-level victory over the Army of the Potomac and literally destroy it. On the other hand, as Lee's letter to Davis of June 10, 1863, clearly shows, Lee was well aware of the need to subtly promote the growing peace movement in the North and that this played a role in his decision to invade Pennsylvania in the first place. Having won at Gettysburg, Lee might have played to the latter goal rather than the former and not wanted to risk another battle that might well go against him.
 
It's quite possible. He always seems to have imagined he could win a Cannae-level victory over the Army of the Potomac and literally destroy it. On the other hand, as Lee's letter to Davis of June 10, 1863, clearly shows, Lee was well aware of the need to subtly promote the growing peace movement in the North and that this played a role in his decision to invade Pennsylvania in the first place. Having won at Gettysburg, Lee might have played to the latter goal rather than the former and not wanted to risk another battle that might well go against him.

See this is the problem I foresee, OTL Lee really thought of his men and army as invincible. If he forced Meade to withdraw I can easily imagine him being arrogant enough he can smash the whatever defenses the Yankee's had thrown up, just to strike his much desired Cannae blow.

I don't think Davis would object to such a strategy either.
 
Does Cemetary Ridge go down at roughly the same time? Because if you have a general collapse of the Union left, well, then Lee wins at Gettysburg, and injures Meade enough for the campaign to count as a win. Assuming that the doesn't attempt to run down Meade and destroy him, throw himself at another prepared position, and suffer a critical amount of casualties the ANV cannot recover from.

Winning Gettysburg? Possible. Little Round Top was not the only part of the Union left that hung on by its fingernails that day. The 20th Maine is simply the best known of about half a dozen regiments who really show where the myth of superior Southern valor can go. I'm firmly of the mind that the South had an incredibly high hill to climb to win the ACW, but if they ever had the Army of the Potomac on the ropes, in a position where they could do extensive damage, it was at Gettysburg on the Second day, with the Union left barely holding on.

However, it must always be remembered that the ANV would have difficulty surviving any knockout blow it could choose to land.
 
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