Would Czechoslovakia have broken up without Communism?

CaliGuy

Banned
The 1946 election showed that even before the Communist takeover of 1948 there was a big political difference between the Czech lands and Slovakia. (Or rather that the pre-war political division was persisting, even if the old Slovak People's Party had been banned.) In the Czech lands, the Communist Party was the largest single party; in Slovakia, the Slovak Democratic Party got 62 percent of the vote, compared to 30.3 percent for the Slovak Communists. https://books.google.com/books?id=AZZoTdLB4nwC&pg=PA174

Not that the Slovak Democrats advocated separation--but still they (or some successor party) were likely eventually to clash with any centralist government in Praque whether headed by the Communists or not.
Interesting information! :) Of course, what I am curious is this--was such a division also visible in the prewar years? Or is this division only a postwar phenomenon?

Also, a bit nit-picky, but you spelled "Prague" wrong here, David.

Ultimately, unless Czechoslovakia can develop either a sense of a Czechoslovak community not dominated by the Czechs or a real binational framework, I suspect it may be doomed to split.
Wouldn't avoiding World War II and keeping the Sudeten Germans significantly help with this, though? Indeed, if the Slovaks, Germans, Hungarians, and Rusyns worked together, they might be able to check Czech domination of Czechoslovakia considering that they combined made up 47% of Czechoslovakia's population:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czechoslovakia#Ethnicity

Plus, the non-Czech percentage of the population would grow even further if Czechoslovakia opened its doors to large numbers of immigrants--thus serving as an even stronger check on Czech domination of Czechoslovakia.
 
Interesting information! :) Of course, what I am curious is this--was such a division also visible in the prewar years? Or is this division only a postwar phenomenon?
Well Hlinka's Slovak People Party and it's election allies got in Czechoslovak election 1935 over 30% in Slovakia and Benes actually become president with help of Hlinka's people party votes in parliament. There was drift in party if to support Benes or no. Dr Jozef Tiso was pro Benes and won in Party. Funny he become President of wartime Slovak Republic and after war was sentenced to death (main point of his sentence was breaking Czechoslovak Republic apart). His appeal for clemency to Benes was unanswered.


Wouldn't avoiding World War II and keeping the Sudeten Germans significantly help with this, though? Indeed, if the Slovaks, Germans, Hungarians, and Rusyns worked together, they might be able to check Czech domination of Czechoslovakia considering that they combined made up 47% of Czechoslovakia's population
Probably it would help. In Slovak second party gaining most votes were Agrarians (Republican Party)

Plus, the non-Czech percentage of the population would grow even further if Czechoslovakia opened its doors to large numbers of immigrants--thus serving as an even stronger check on Czech domination of Czechoslovakia.
Czechoslovakia after WWI accepted huge amount of former subjects of Russian empire which run away from Red terror. After all, commander of 1st Czechoslovak army in 1938 was Russian national, citizen of Czechoslovakia General Sergej Vocechovsky (Czech/ Slovak writing of his name), former colonel of Russian Imperial Army and Czechoslovak legion in Russia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Wojciechowski
 

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
Donor
Monthly Donor
Czechoslovakia after WWI accepted huge amount of former subjects of Russian empire which run away from Red terror. After all, commander of 1st Czechoslovak army in 1938 was Russian national, citizen of Czechoslovakia General Sergej Vocechovsky (Czech/ Slovak writing of his name), former colonel of Russian Imperial Army and Czechoslovak legion in Russia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Wojciechowski

And yet Czechoslovakia probably had the best relations, up to a contemplated military alliance with the Soviet Union. Interesting, and somewhat surprising, given the large emigre presence.
 
And yet Czechoslovakia probably had the best relations, up to a contemplated military alliance with the Soviet Union. Interesting, and somewhat surprising, given the large emigre presence.

The good relations between Czechoslovakia and the USSR didn't happen overnight. It wasn't even until 1934 that Czechoslovakia recognized the Soviet Union *de jure.* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czechoslovakia–Soviet_Union_relations

BTW, in addition to anti-Soviet *Russian* exiles. Czechoslovakia also offered a haven for Ukrainian nationalists--a fact which helped embitter Polish-Czechoslovak relations, since of course these nationalists wanted a Ukrainian state embracing much of eastern Poland as well as the Soviet Ukraine. https://books.google.com/books?id=SfWBAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA65 https://books.google.com/books?id=HVNzUthwDf0C&pg=PA10
 
And yet Czechoslovakia probably had the best relations, up to a contemplated military alliance with the Soviet Union. Interesting, and somewhat surprising, given the large emigre presence.
Czechoslovakia recognized Soviet Union only in May 1935 though. But Benes was working on it earlier.

Edit: Davit T already answered.
 
BTW, in addition to anti-Soviet *Russian* exiles. Czechoslovakia also offered a haven for Ukrainian nationalists--a fact which helped embitter Polish-Czechoslovak relations, since of course these nationalists wanted a Ukrainian state embracing much of eastern Poland as well as the Soviet Ukraine. https://books.google.com/books?id=SfWBAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA65 https://books.google.com/books?id=HVNzUthwDf0C&pg=PA10

BTW, one thing that puzzles me a little: was the Czechoslovak government totally unconcerned that these same people to whom it was extending its hospitality presumably wanted the future Ukrainian state to include Carpathian Ruthenia (Carpatho-Ukraine as the nationalists would put it...)?
 

CaliGuy

Banned
BTW, one thing that puzzles me a little: was the Czechoslovak government totally unconcerned that these same people to whom it was extending its hospitality presumably wanted the future Ukrainian state to include Carpathian Ruthenia (Carpatho-Ukraine as the nationalists would put it...)?
Wasn't Czechoslovakia's claim on Subcarpathian Ruthenia largely the result of circumstance, though? Specifically, didn't Czechoslovakia lack a historical claim to Subcarpathian Ruthenia and only claimed it because Poland didn't want it and because giving it to a Communist state (the Soviet Union) was out of the question?
 
Wasn't Czechoslovakia's claim on Subcarpathian Ruthenia largely the result of circumstance, though? Specifically, didn't Czechoslovakia lack a historical claim to Subcarpathian Ruthenia and only claimed it because Poland didn't want it and because giving it to a Communist state (the Soviet Union) was out of the question?
I assume it was to keep it out of Hungarian (and likely Polish) hands rather than the Soviets whom didn't actually border the province.
 
Wasn't Czechoslovakia's claim on Subcarpathian Ruthenia largely the result of circumstance, though? Specifically, didn't Czechoslovakia lack a historical claim to Subcarpathian Ruthenia and only claimed it because Poland didn't want it and because giving it to a Communist state (the Soviet Union) was out of the question?
Actually Czechoslovak "claim" on Ruthenia came also from meeting with leaders of Ruthenian diaspora in USA. I read somewhere that in one ppint when it was realized how backward it was Prague wanted to back up fro agreement. Romania didn't want it andleaving it with Hungary was out of question. At the end it served as a bridge to Romania.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Actually Czechoslovak "claim" on Ruthenia came also from meeting with leaders of Ruthenian diaspora in USA. I read somewhere that in one ppint when it was realized how backward it was Prague wanted to back up fro agreement. Romania didn't want it andleaving it with Hungary was out of question. At the end it served as a bridge to Romania.
To be fair, though, a friendly Ukrainian state would have likewise allowed Czechoslovakia to access Romania.
 
To be fair, though, a friendly Ukrainian state would have likewise allowed Czechoslovakia to access Romania.
To be fair Ukrainian state ceased to exist in December 14th 1918 end never
Controlled area which even bordered future Czechoslovak Ruthenia. Czechoslovak republic was established in October 28th 1918 but was fully controling its territory only after Red Hungary defeat in summer 1919. So historically there was no room even to try to establish friendly or any other relation with Kiev.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
To be fair Ukrainian state ceased to exist in December 14th 1918 end never
Controlled area which even bordered future Czechoslovak Ruthenia. Czechoslovak republic was established in October 28th 1918 but was fully controling its territory only after Red Hungary defeat in summer 1919. So historically there was no room even to try to establish friendly or any other relation with Kiev.
1991.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Unless the Ukrainian state is not-so-friendly with Romania - which would likely be the case.
Or we could see Ukrainian nationalism be focused against Russia--as in our TL. Indeed, to my knowledge, Ukrainian-Romanian relations are very friendly right now in our TL.
 
Or we could see Ukrainian nationalism be focused against Russia--as in our TL. Indeed, to my knowledge, Ukrainian-Romanian relations are very friendly right now in our TL.

True. However, we are talking about 1918 and the following years. A surviving Ukrainian state would have likely had an antagonistic relationship with Romania over Bessarabia and Bukovina.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
True. However, we are talking about 1918 and the following years. A surviving Ukrainian state would have likely had an antagonistic relationship with Romania over Bessarabia and Bukovina.
Possibly, but having two or even three of your neighbors (Russia and Romania, and maybe Poland as well) be hostile to you doesn't seem like a very good idea.
 
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