Would China be even more fucked if had not introduced its One Child Policy?

China would have been better off

  • had it not intervened in it's population growth rate

    Votes: 41 21.8%
  • had it implemented a 2-child policy instead

    Votes: 67 35.6%
  • The One Child policy was actually the best case scenario

    Votes: 62 33.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 18 9.6%

  • Total voters
    188
Except your obvious lack of understanding about China and Chinese culture other than what seems to be a simple stereotype glimpsed off a TV documentary at some point and then assume you have some sort of deep insightful look at Confucius makes what you said not only irrelevant but borderline offensive.

This is slander. You don't know what my education is and you have no right to falsely state about me things that are not factually true. Let me make this crystal clear for everyone: I do know about Confucius, I do understand Confucianism, I have delved in philosophy (granted, Confucianism was not my focus of study, so I won't claim I have a deep insightful understanding of it, but it does take much less than my level of understanding to see see that the CPC has pretty much trampled on China's traditions and intellectual legacy), I do know what Zhuge Liang's legacy is in Chinese culture and I have studied Chinese history and traditional culture (again, it was not the main focus of my studies, but I have studied it in an Academic environment -- nothing to do with anything on TV).

[Ok now I want to make this crystal clear: the previous paragraph is just supposed to correct flase erroneous information stated by Typo on my level of education and on whre I am getting my information on Chinese history, culture and society from. The previous paragraph is not supposed, in any way to be an argument in favour of my vies on the issue at hand and it is not an argument on anything we were previously discussing, because it does not concern facts, just my person. So don't take it as one.]

Typo, I still know you're not a red commie, but if circumstances were so that you could be, and if in those circumstances you had the desire to become one, let me tell you, you would succeed, you've got the right stuff. Just my opinion, honest to God.

Marxism-Leninism? Are those guys Chinese?
Now I don't have any evidence other than personal experience to back up what I'm going to say, but the overwhelming majority of Chinese people I've met, including those living in the mainland, hold views and mindsets that seem disproportionately oriented to Western thought, Western philosophy, Western ideals, etc. There have been many who point to the 1850-1950 period and say "look how far being Chinese got us". These people then go one to say stupid things like "Without the CPC there is no China" and that kind of nonsense. Yes, these people are definitely Chinese. I am not going to call them idiots, for many of such people I have talked to are intellectuals (actually it is the intellectuals who most commonly subscribe to this mentality, since they get the most ideological education). But their mindsets are warped, and I submit that the CPC's ideology, which is far from simply "taking ideas from across cultures" is largely behind a lot of this mess.

I couldn't have put it better myself.
 
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Because they can't even begin to do so without causing a complete economic collapse along with a mass popular revolt, they can do so in the same sense that the American government can theoretically nuke themselves if they want to.
I wouldn't be so sure. The CCP has managed to get away with tons of things it shouldn't have, because of the type of omnipresent influence (in addition to political power) it wields.

what does that have to do with anything exactly?
Marx and Lenin probably knew next to nothing about China and its historical development, but their philosophy and thought was still taken up by those in the CCP and implemented as if it could suit China's situation. I say it would've been better for China to have built off of the ideas of native thinkers rather than that of those of Europeans, who did their work in relation to European circumstances and characteristics.

You do realize this is true all over the world right? Like the entire global community has adopted a "disproportionate" amount of western (or more specifically American) ideas and this isn't even necessarily a bad thing.
It is true all over the world, and I'm sorry that it is.
Oh what do you know, a regime indoctrinates it's citizens with nationalistic propaganda, China is the only country that does this!
Well, maybe what it all boils down to is not communism, Westernization, or even nationalism, but rather the simple fact that the CPC has been a terrible government since the days of Yan'an. Sure, other countries have nationalism, other countries have been westernized, and other countries have undergone extreme socialism. But, in my estimation, what sets aside China from the rest is the sheer scale of how its government has effected/magnified these factors.
I would gladly explain myself more clearly, but I'm afraid I've gotten us sorely off-topic. Alright everyone, let's go back to discussing wiveless sons and dead daughters!
 

Typo

Banned
This is slander. You don't know what my education is and you have no right to falsely state about me things that are not factually true. Let me make this crystal clear for everyone: I do know about Confucius, I do understand Confucianism, I have delved in philosophy (granted, Confucianism was not my focus of study, so I won't claim I have a deep insightful understanding of it, but it does take much less than my level of understanding to see see that the CPC has pretty much trampled on China's traditions and intellectual legacy), I do know what Zhuge Liang's legacy is in Chinese culture and I have studied Chinese history and traditional culture (again, it was not the main focus of my studies, but I have studied it in an Academic environment -- nothing to do with anything on TV).
Ok, so explain to me why the one child policy is contradictory to "Zhuge Liang's legacy".

Also do you understand the fallacy "appeal to tradition"
Typo, I still know you're not a red commie, but if circumstances were so that you could be, and if in those circumstances you had the desire to become one, let me tell you, you would succeed, you've got the right stuff. Just my opinion, honest to God.
Ok, so instead of calling me a commie outright you are basically calling me a communist sympathizer
Marx and Lenin probably knew next to nothing about China and its historical development, but their philosophy and thought was still taken up by those in the CCP and implemented as if it could suit China's situation. I say it would've been better for China to have built off of the ideas of native thinkers rather than that of those of Europeans, who did their work in relation to European circumstances and characteristics.
I don't think anyone in particular is trying to argue -for- the superiority of communism, all we are saying is that the KMT would have had around the same level of performance or worse.

I never really understood why an idea is so bad because it came from foreign sources, considering the major political ideologies of the era: be they nationalism, fascism, democracy, or communism, were all imported from the west.
It is true all over the world, and I'm sorry that it is.
Fair enough
Well, maybe what it all boils down to is not communism, Westernization, or even nationalism, but rather the simple fact that the CPC has been a terrible government since the days of Yan'an. Sure, other countries have nationalism, other countries have been westernized, and other countries have undergone extreme socialism. But, in my estimation, what sets aside China from the rest is the sheer scale of how its government has effected/magnified these factors.
I would gladly explain myself more clearly, but I'm afraid I've gotten us sorely off-topic. Alright everyone, let's go back to discussing wiveless sons and dead daughters!
You seem to keep asserting that the CCP is the worst government ever with very little backing it up other than appeal to dramatics
 

loughery111

Banned
You seem to keep asserting that the CCP is the worst government ever with very little backing it up other than appeal to dramatics

I believe that what he is asserting is that it once WAS the worst government in the history of mankind. Which is entirely within the realm of possibility given the number of its own citizens it killed pursuing truly insane and screwed up economic and social policies of various stripes. It is no longer anywhere near that bad, though. I'll agree with you there.
 
We were looking into adoption a few years ago and for a while Chinese girls were the most popular because the one child policy many families just dropped the girls off at a local orphanage. However that changed a couple of years ago after the Chinese government realized how embarrassing it was for all these westerners to be coming over to take their "unwanted" children. Now Chinese families are encouraged to adopt them.

I know several families who've adopted a Chinese girl. They are cute and smart as a whip. They will be a great addition to American society in the future and in the upcoming decades when these girls take leadership positions in business, government, and culture I really feel China will totally regret losing out on their talents.
 
Population growth in the SAR's

Ey?
Hong Kong's population has rose significantly over the past 50 years as has that of Tibet. I can't find numbers for Macau right now but I'm pretty sure it has grown too.

Hong Kong's population has grown significantly since WW2.
Wikipedia:
1950 2,360,000
1960 3,000,000
1970 3,995,400
1980 5,145,100
2000 6,711,500
2009 7,026,400



There's a gap (1990) but there's a pretty clear deceleration in growth. The birth rate is miniscule; most recent population growth comes from immigration from Mainland China.


The decline in birth rates has tracked increases in GDP per capita pretty closely.


The population of Macau was I believe (this is purely anecdotal, as I cannot find figures) fairly static until around 2003. Changes in the gaming industry have resulted in labour shortages and increased migration from China. The migration rate appears to be about half that of Hong Kong.


Using Hong Kong and Macau as examples of why the one child policy "didn't work" probably doesn't fly. That doesn't necessarily mean the one child policy did work to restrict population grown. I think it probably did, but it would be very hard to prove (or disprove).
 
The OCP has probably worked in reducing the actual number of Chinese, but even if it hadn't existed I don't think there would've been much of an overall difference.
 
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