Would a worse performing USSR have motivated an earlier Allied invasion of mainland Europe?

If instead of keeping Germany in a deadlock for most of 42 and 43 the USSR looked like it was on the verge of collapse would this have sped up the Allied plans (US and UK) to invade mainland Europe?

Stalin even while keeping Germany at bay was desperate for the US/UK to open a western front.
 
Depends, but likely yes. They had several plans for an invasion of France in late 1942 if needed if the USSR was collapsing. Obviously those were sidelined due to likely casualties, which would have had to be borne by the Brits disproportionately due to US unreadiness, which is why the North African campaign got the green light instead based on British preferences and Soviet ability to hold on.
 
I think that given e.g. the result of the Allied (though with mainly Canadian troops) incursion in Dieppe, that tin the '42 the Allied wouldn't be ready.
 
I think that given e.g. the result of the Allied (though with mainly Canadian troops) incursion in Dieppe, that tin the '42 the Allied wouldn't be ready.
If the US just defends in the Pacific, the Allies would be able to do something in late Summer of '42
There was no Atlantic Wall. The Germans were very busy on the Eastern Front, and even North Africa

Had the need been there, Op. Roundup would have happened.
 
If the US just defends in the Pacific, the Allies would be able to do something in late Summer of '42
There was no Atlantic Wall. The Germans were very busy on the Eastern Front, and even North Africa


Had the need been there, Op. Roundup would have happened.
I doubt it is enough, the US simply didn't use enough troops in the Pacific in 1942 to make much of a difference. The supplies weren't built up in England yet, we had limited experience in opposed beach landings, most of our troops weren't trained yet and so we would have been massacred and the Germans would have barely been slowed down.
 
Yeah if their was an invasion in 1942 it would be mostly British and could only land if I remember about 7,000 per wave.
 
we had limited experience in opposed beach landings,
OTL

Note Operation Torch forces sailed from US, so that didn't show in this list

There wouldn't be many German Troops defending at that time, either, and they had even less experience in defending beaches from a Naval assault.

German Effort was put into protecting U-Boat bases and building the Pens, than doing anything with the beaches where Roundup was supposed to land
 
OTL

Note Operation Torch forces sailed from US, so that didn't show in this list

There wouldn't be many German Troops defending at that time, either, and they had even less experience in defending beaches from a Naval assault.

German Effort was put into protecting U-Boat bases and building the Pens, than doing anything with the beaches where Roundup was supposed to land
It is much easier to defend than attack. I don't think we had enough experience to pull this off. The German railway wouldn't have been almost completely wrecked either and reinforcements would have arrived within days. My best guess is that we would push in maybe 20 miles or so before being pushed back into the sea.
 
The problem is that in 1942 we just didn't have the landing craft to land much. As I mentioned we couldn't even land a Division. Not to mention supply an assault force. Even more so as the landing would have been in the fall. And Torch we were lucky as must of the French forces didn't fight for long or it could have been a lot harder. And most importantly the US commanders were inexperienced which showed in Tunisia.
 
The problem is that in 1942 we just didn't have the landing craft to land much
Year

LCPL

1940-1941
564

1942-1 to 1942-6
553

1942-7
307

1942-8
218

1942-9
222

1942-10
228

1942-11
212

1942-12
130

LVT

1940-1941
72


1942-1 to 1942-6

258

1942-7
74

1942-8
94

1942-9
105

1942-10
52

1942-11
133

1942-12
125


LCV
1940-1941
110

1942-1 to 1942-6
446


1942-7

173

1942-8
382

1942-9
255

1942-10
166

1942-11
254

1942-12
215

LCVP
1942-11
75

1942-12
140

Seams like they could land a lot, had the desire been there for late Summer 1942
 
Year

LCPL

1940-1941
564

1942-1 to 1942-6
553

1942-7
307

1942-8
218

1942-9
222

1942-10
228

1942-11
212

1942-12
130

LVT

1940-1941
72


1942-1 to 1942-6

258

1942-7
74

1942-8
94

1942-9
105

1942-10
52

1942-11
133

1942-12
125


LCV
1940-1941
110

1942-1 to 1942-6
446


1942-7

173

1942-8
382

1942-9
255

1942-10
166

1942-11
254

1942-12
215

LCVP
1942-11
75

1942-12
140

Seams like they could land a lot, had the desire been there for late Summer 1942
Which would have merely led to more troops being slaughtered for no good reason. The Luftwafe wasn't whittled down that much yet, the railroads were functioning fine in the west, the Allies had little practice in landing, the airpower wasn't overwhelming, the capital ships didn't have practice in shore bombardment yet, the doctrine wasn't there yet, and there would have been very little time to plan.
 
Not to mention several of the units used in Tunisia were in France including the 10th Panzer Division.
 
Which would have merely led to more troops being slaughtered for no good reason. The Luftwafe wasn't whittled down that much yet, the railroads were functioning fine in the west, the Allies had little practice in landing, the airpower wasn't overwhelming, the capital ships didn't have practice in shore bombardment yet, the doctrine wasn't there yet, and there would have been very little time to plan.
So there are:
A: Enough Landing Craft, and enough men to put in them, though most were Green-- just as most were in June 1944

Luftwaffe Groups in France 1942 had little for Antiship Strikes, being all in the Med and Norway.

RRs were fine, but what and who would they relocate?

Rommel was across a Sea and busy with what he was doing

von Bock was having List blitzkrieging thru the Kuban with aims of gaining the Caucasus and the Oil fields nd other resources. Case Blue and Op Edelweiss, with Weichs was pushing to cut the Volga. Case Blue and Op Fischreiher after the Soviet Counter attack around Kharkov was annihilated

Manstein was busy in the Crimea, preparing for Op Blücher, assist in the Caucasus.

Army Group Center with von Kluge was doing holding operations, and were reduced to 2nd Panzer Army, 3rd Panzer Army, 4th Army, 9th Army, that were most doing anti-Partisan operations and stealing food. Units had been shifted to other Fronts.

Army Group North with von Küchler was beating his head against the Leningrad defensive works, 11th,16th and 18th Armies.

So, who will have their divisions yanked away?
 
Not to mention several of the units used in Tunisia were in France including the 10th Panzer Division.
for 6 months after May, 1942, they were rebuilding in North France from the heavy losses taken in the Soviet Winter campaign
 

Ramontxo

Donor
Roundup is launched by the Commonwealth with all available landing craft (including over Kings deadbody something from the pacific). The American troop convoy disembark in Marseilles to the delirious acclaim of the population (it is close enough to the oft quoted twenty divisions to make Darlan and the Army change sides) immediately the north Africa french forces proceed to take tripoli and benghazi (Rommel with the Italians and the DAK are thousands of kilometers away on Egypt)
 
So there are:
A: Enough Landing Craft, and enough men to put in them, though most were Green-- just as most were in June 1944

Luftwaffe Groups in France 1942 had little for Antiship Strikes, being all in the Med and Norway.

RRs were fine, but what and who would they relocate?

Rommel was across a Sea and busy with what he was doing

von Bock was having List blitzkrieging thru the Kuban with aims of gaining the Caucasus and the Oil fields nd other resources. Case Blue and Op Edelweiss, with Weichs was pushing to cut the Volga. Case Blue and Op Fischreiher after the Soviet Counter attack around Kharkov was annihilated

Manstein was busy in the Crimea, preparing for Op Blücher, assist in the Caucasus.

Army Group Center with von Kluge was doing holding operations, and were reduced to 2nd Panzer Army, 3rd Panzer Army, 4th Army, 9th Army, that were most doing anti-Partisan operations and stealing food. Units had been shifted to other Fronts.

Army Group North with von Küchler was beating his head against the Leningrad defensive works, 11th,16th and 18th Armies.

So, who will have their divisions yanked away?
Barely trained men, at least for beach landings as no one had much practice in that. If you start a landing in France those planes will be moved from the Med to France. Planes do fly you know. The Germans and Italians could and would move troops from Italy and North Africa to France . After all you can't do Torch and Roundup at the same time. Even if you could the Germans would trade North Africa for France in a heartbeat. If the Germans are doing much better in Russia (which is what the OP says) troops can be sent from there. There are also the newly trained troops .
 
A collapsed situation in the East with Leningrad and/or Moscow having fallen in '41 and Case Blue working could inspire a late 42 landing in Northern France. It would fail though relive pressure on the Soviet Union for a short period.

The question then becomes at what cost. The British if they are still stuck in Egypt and just were repulsed in France could no confidence vote Churchill (its hard to say). If not the landings in France probably take up American and British resources intended for North Africa so the DAK holds out until early 44. The Soviet Union may end up in the situation of China where the Germans can't put them away, but they can't take back much either.

Germany either makes peace with one or both sides or ends up devastated in atomic fire in '46. Though they probably make out more like Japan post war in terms of losses to core territory.
 
Planes do fly you know
Sure they do that.
But then you need logistics to keep them doing that after they arrive, or they end up like the French aircraft at Martinique

If the Germans are doing much better in Russia (which is what the OP says) troops can be sent from there.
going deeper into Russia may be better, but units still get ground down in combat, and need time to rebuild, and provide security.
Partisans everywhere.

!0th Panzer kickjed Soviet Ass in early 1942.
It was in no condition to kick anyone's ass in May, 1942. It took them almost a year to rebuild after a big victory
 
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