Would a world with no Protestantism and instead a mass Catholic Reformation be less racist?

Less racism with no Protestantism?

  • Yes

    Votes: 47 34.8%
  • No

    Votes: 88 65.2%

  • Total voters
    135
It depends on what you mean by mass Catholic Reformation?
Like, Catholicism becomes a bit less decentralized with regional "Popes" who fight corruption an make sure preachers know they're stuff or something. I am still figuring it out, but generally Calvinism and the Puritans don't exist with their emphasis on the old testament and using it as an example to survive in the new world.
 
limpieza de sangre says it all

Spain was the home of Bartolome de las Casas as well as Torquemada (who was himself a converso who knew apostasy was more likely in converts).

Like, Catholicism becomes a bit less decentralized with regional "Popes" who fight corruption an make sure preachers know they're stuff or something. I am still figuring it out, but generally Calvinism and the Puritans don't exist with their emphasis on the old testament and using it as an example to survive in the new world.

Hm. Regional Popes?
 
Spain was the home of Bartolome de las Casas as well as Torquemada (who was himself a converso who knew apostasy was more likely in converts).



That sounds dangerously difficult.
Well, I could use some help in this as I need to butterfly away Protestantism without heavily affecting the development of the enlightenment and industrialization. Like I am aware that you don't need to be Protestant for industrialization(Belgium), but I think...you might need the enlightenment for industrialization.
 
Like, Catholicism becomes a bit less decentralized with regional "Popes" who fight corruption an make sure preachers know they're stuff or something. I am still figuring it out, but generally Calvinism and the Puritans don't exist with their emphasis on the old testament and using it as an example to survive in the new world.
You say that but it was the mestizos who were some of the hardest campaigners for bringing the inquisition to the new world to combat corrupt Dominicans and nobles. Because the Inquisiton might be Jerks, they at least ensured the law was followed (better than it was). So regionalizing "popes" just sounds like a way for the corrupt local nobles to give licenses to oppress the natives harder
 
You say that but it was the mestizos who were some of the hardest campaigners for bringing the inquisition to the new world to combat corrupt Dominicans and nobles. Because the Inquisiton might be Jerks, they at least ensured the law was followed (better than it was). So regionalizing "popes" just sounds like a way for the corrupt local nobles to give licenses to oppress the natives harder
Well, I am still figuring it out, but how would no Protestantism affect northern north America ans south Africa, plus the scientific racism and eugenics movements? Which seemed to be only a big thing in Protestant countries, according to my knowledge.
 

JJohnson

Banned
Like, Catholicism becomes a bit less decentralized with regional "Popes" who fight corruption an make sure preachers know they're stuff or something. I am still figuring it out, but generally Calvinism and the Puritans don't exist with their emphasis on the old testament and using it as an example to survive in the new world.
The Pope would never give up his power or really ever admit that he or the Roman church is wrong in anything. They're the ones who burned Tyndale and declared Wycliffe a heretic, fought the Hussites and other reform movements. The likelihood of them reforming without something major forcing it seems remote. But that's one person's opinion. The only way to force the Catholic church to maybe, possibly, remotely admit it needs to change would be if Ireland, England, Scotland, ALL Germanic-speaking lands, all Slavic lands all leave the Catholic church and stay out of the Catholic church, leaving only Italy, France, Spain, Portugal, and the micro-states. Then there's a better than 5% chance they might reform something.
 
I don't see that Catholics would be lesser racist than Protestants. Spaniards expelled all Jews and Muslims (clearly racist act) and there was several racist regimes speciality on 20th century. And in many Catholic countries is ultranationalist/racist parties/people.

And racism has always been part of human kind. And whites not be only ones who can be such.
 
I don't see that Catholics would be lesser racist than Protestants. Spaniards expelled all Jews and Muslims (clearly racist act) and there was several racist regimes speciality on 20th century. And in many Catholic countries is ultranationalist/racist parties/people.

And racism has always been part of human kind. And whites not be only ones who can be such.
Well, again it seems that aside from religion, the Catholics tolerated other ethnicities, where as Protestant American settlers didn't tolerate the Natives even if they converted into Christianity, like this one tribe( who's name I can't recall) that was totally assimilate into Western culture, but the militia still massacred them, not to mention that the South US and south Africa had segregation/apartheid, while Catholics/Latin countries didn't do that. Usually Catholicism emphasized converting people as they set up Churches and tried to mix native beliefs with Catholicism( dia de los muertos anyone?). They even studied the traditions and languages of the Natives.
 
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The Catholic Church's action pre-1800's were directed against other religions, NOT race or ethnicity. According to the Catholic Church back then, it didn't matter what ethnicity or skin color you were, all that was important was that you were a faithful Catholic Christian. This was one reason why France was the friendliest of the colonial powers to Native Americans as they would accept them if they just lived in peace as Catholics. In Europe the Church supported Poland because they were for the most part strong defenders of Catholicism in the religious wars. It didn't matter that they were Slavic but that they kept true to the faith. The only racism you're talking about came from Spain's corrupted, zealous version of Catholicism. Even in Latin America most blacks/natives were accepted, the difference was that they weren't given as many opportunities or positions of power as Creoles and Peninsulares. The best example of this is in Asia were Catholic missionaries tried to adapt to local customs and were even willing to mix beliefs with certain Shinto/Confucian concepts. The main way a mass Catholic reformation would happen would be through the different customs of the non-Latin rite churches, such as the Eastern Catholic churches. If other rites were created in Asia then the church hierarchy in the main Latin rite might be willing to reform if there were liberal minded men in the College of Cardinals.
 
Well, I could use some help in this as I need to butterfly away Protestantism without heavily affecting the development of the enlightenment and industrialization. Like I am aware that you don't need to be Protestant for industrialization(Belgium), but I think...you might need the enlightenment for industrialization.

Yeah... hm. Well, a new schism in Christendom established the idea of cuius regio eius religio.

The Pope would never give up his power or really ever admit that he or the Roman church is wrong in anything. They're the ones who burned Tyndale and declared Wycliffe a heretic, fought the Hussites and other reform movements. The likelihood of them reforming without something major forcing it seems remote. But that's one person's opinion. The only way to force the Catholic church to maybe, possibly, remotely admit it needs to change would be if Ireland, England, Scotland, ALL Germanic-speaking lands, all Slavic lands all leave the Catholic church and stay out of the Catholic church, leaving only Italy, France, Spain, Portugal, and the micro-states. Then there's a better than 5% chance they might reform something.

Hey now, it acknowledged something needed to be done after only losing Scandinavia, half of the British Isles, and northern Germany. That's why there was the Council of Trent, the Jesuits, and the Counter-Reformation.
 
Bartolome de Las Casas was an awesome person, who acknowledged he was a hypocrite regarding blacks and renounced said hypocrisy.

I'm usually a critic of the Catholic Church despite being a nominal/cafeteria Catholic, but one should note that the Spanish Crown and as said earlier in the thread, the flipping' Inquisition, fought against racism, slavery, and racist policies in Latin America.

Edit: Oh, and don't forget the Jesuits in Paraguay who actually preserved native culture.
 
Double-post: Note however that the racism we see in Latin America today is rooted in the fact that the Spanish Crown just cannot enforce its more pro-native policies on the corrupt nobility...
 
There are more horses' asses than there are horses. Some people will be dicks to their fellows regardless of faith. edit. especially where money is at stake.
 
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