Would a Manchurian identity develop if Manchukuo survives?

Assuming Chiang and the Japanese come to some sort of accommodation during the 1930s, thus avoiding war in 1937, and assuming the Japanese continue to dominate Manchukuo, would a Manchurian identity develop? Or would the Chinese inhabitants of Manchukuo still consider themselves Chinese? OTL has seen the rise of a Taiwanese national identity, starting under the Japanese occupation. Would a similar thing happen in Manchukuo?
 
Well it would all depend, especially if Chiang decided to send the Manchu minorities not assimilated into China back to Manchukuo
 
The mainland Chinese on Taiwan were both lower proportionally compared to the locals than the Chinese were compared to the Chinese population compared to the Manchu in Manchuria, and the former were from the south and thus not primarily speakers of the Mandrian language around which the Chinese Republicans were constructing the (primarily Han-Influenced) national identity so they were naturally more detached from the mainland political culture. Add that to the fact that Mancukuo was explicently managed by the Japanese as a multi-ethnic state rather than an Manchu ethnic homeland, and you don't have solid grounds on which to build that kind of identity. I suppose its possible you could try to build a kind of civic nationalism, but that's not really possible in a culturally and economically dominated region in which the education and cultural influences, if not overwhelming Japanese, are going to be coming from the bottom up (And thus majority Han)
 
There would have to be pro-Manchurian ethnic policies. You would have to have a fairly broad definition of who is a Manchurian, definite benefits for identifying as such and you would have to probably say anyone with even a single Manchurian parent is Manchurian. Given the amount of time that has passed I think it is possible, although still pretty difficult.
 
If the state lasts for enough and there is a clear ideological difference between Manchukuo and the rest of mainland China, the population could certainly develop an identity around the Manchurian state. East

Germany had no ethnic difference from West Germany and it was also established as the client of a foreign power, but there are still former East Germans who have some bizarre rose-tinted nostalgia for the communist era.

If there is some kind of language reform that makes the Manchurian spoken dialect of Han Chinese distinct from the rest of China, or a major divergence between Manchukuo's writing system and the rest of China, this could strengthen a Manchukuo identity. There might be a split over simplified vs. traditional characters, a new Manchurian writing system, or the adoption of some Japanese characters. The Manchurian language does have its own alphabet, but I don't know if that could be adapted to spoken Mandarin easily.

Meme-ing a national identity into existence is extremely difficult, but it's not impossible with some pre-existing distinction that can be emphasized and copious amounts of historical revisionism.
 
If the state lasts for enough and there is a clear ideological difference between Manchukuo and the rest of mainland China, the population could certainly develop an identity around the Manchurian state. East

Germany had no ethnic difference from West Germany and it was also established as the client of a foreign power, but there are still former East Germans who have some bizarre rose-tinted nostalgia for the communist era.

If there is some kind of language reform that makes the Manchurian spoken dialect of Han Chinese distinct from the rest of China, or a major divergence between Manchukuo's writing system and the rest of China, this could strengthen a Manchukuo identity. There might be a split over simplified vs. traditional characters, a new Manchurian writing system, or the adoption of some Japanese characters. The Manchurian language does have its own alphabet, but I don't know if that could be adapted to spoken Mandarin easily.

Meme-ing a national identity into existence is extremely difficult, but it's not impossible with some pre-existing distinction that can be emphasized and copious amounts of historical revisionism.

Reviving the old Manchu language and alphabet could work alongside with focus on pre-Qing accomplishments
 
Reviving the old Manchu language and alphabet could work alongside with focus on pre-Qing accomplishments
Literally every single citizen could be of only Han ancestry, but as long they're convinced that "we wuz manchus before the evil chinese invaders arrived", they won't see themselves as a Chinese version of East Germany.
 
Without getting too far into the specifics -- since I'm not an expert on Manchukuo or interwar Japan -- it's worth considering that plenty of arbitrary colonial territories have endured. Assuming that at some point Manchurians make their independence real -- either as the result of a revolt or a softening of Japanese overlordship -- it's possible that it endures. Manchurians may feel an ethnic kinship with the Republic of China, but if Manchuria is significantly wealthier, or if Manchurian industries stand to lose from merging into China, and if Han Manchurian political leaders feel inclined to guard their own power (rather than cede it to China), then it's possible the consensus is for them to retain separate statehood.
 
If the state lasts for enough and there is a clear ideological difference between Manchukuo and the rest of mainland China, the population could certainly develop an identity around the Manchurian state. East

Germany had no ethnic difference from West Germany and it was also established as the client of a foreign power, but there are still former East Germans who have some bizarre rose-tinted nostalgia for the communist era.

If there is some kind of language reform that makes the Manchurian spoken dialect of Han Chinese distinct from the rest of China, or a major divergence between Manchukuo's writing system and the rest of China, this could strengthen a Manchukuo identity. There might be a split over simplified vs. traditional characters, a new Manchurian writing system, or the adoption of some Japanese characters. The Manchurian language does have its own alphabet, but I don't know if that could be adapted to spoken Mandarin easily.

Meme-ing a national identity into existence is extremely difficult, but it's not impossible with some pre-existing distinction that can be emphasized and copious amounts of historical revisionism.
It has been done. Belgium, Moldova, East Timor, Cyprus, Macedonia, Uruguay and most especially, Panama could be considered examples of states separated from the larger ethnolinguistic groups bloc by the actions of external powers but still developing a separate national identity over time.

I'm not as sure it would occur with such a blatant client state as Manchukuo nor do I think it would work too easily on the Chinese given the strength of the preexisting national and civilizational identity by this time. There might still be a reluctance to reunite with China for various economic or political reasons. It depends a great deal on how traumatic the Japanese dominion over this puppet state turns out to be in the longer term.
 
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It has been done. Belgium, Moldova, East Timor, Cyprus, Macedonia, Uruguay and most especially, Panama could be considered examples of states separated from the larger ethnolinguistic groups bloc by the actions of external powers but still developing a separate national identity over time.

I'm not as sure it would occur with such a blatant client state as Manchukuo nor do I think it would work too easily on the Chinese given the strength of the preexisting national and civilizational identity by this time. There might still be a reluctance to reunite with China for various economic or political reasons. It depends a great deal on how traumatic the Japanese dominion over this puppet state turns out to be in the longer term.
Most East Timorese people are Roman Catholic due to Portuguese missionaries, so there's a religion divide between them and Muslim-Majority Indonesia that's helped to cement a distinct national identity.

It would honestly be easier to meme a we wuz manchoos identity into existence for the Han people in Manchuria if the region was under communist rule and mainland China wasn't. Assuming China isn't communist in a scenario where Manchukuo survives, the only real ideological difference would be republicanism (China) vs monarchism (Manchukuo).

Soviet influence already has a demonstrated record of carving off part of its neighbors and making a new identity, a sizable part of the Moldovan public is against unification with Romania.

If the rest of mainland China goes red but Manchukuo survives, it may become an alt-Taiwan that vacillates between a "we're the real China" thing and a separate identity. A half-sane capitalism economy and relatively non-abuse colonial rule could easily become more attractive than life on the communist side of the border.
 
Most East Timorese people are Roman Catholic due to Portuguese missionaries, so there's a religion divide between them and Muslim-Majority Indonesia that's helped to cement a distinct national identity.

It would honestly be easier to meme a we wuz manchoos identity into existence for the Han people in Manchuria if the region was under communist rule and mainland China wasn't. Assuming China isn't communist in a scenario where Manchukuo survives, the only real ideological difference would be republicanism (China) vs monarchism (Manchukuo).

Soviet influence already has a demonstrated record of carving off part of its neighbors and making a new identity, a sizable part of the Moldovan public is against unification with Romania.

If the rest of mainland China goes red but Manchukuo survives, it may become an alt-Taiwan that vacillates between a "we're the real China" thing and a separate identity. A half-sane capitalism economy and relatively non-abuse colonial rule could easily become more attractive than life on the communist side of the border.
But what you're proposing is creating a fake heritage instead of naturally forging a sense of separateness over time due to political separation, different economic development and heavy Japanese interference in various aspects of life. The Han Chinese obviously weren't Manchus by virtue of living in Manchuria and tended to hold Han heritage in higher regard than that of the Manchus, who many still considered fundamentally barbarian and who were still resented for their domination in the Qing dynasty, which did not exactly end on a good note. That does not mean that someone cannot some to see themselves as Manchurian Chinese and distinguish this identity from "other" Chinese in the sense that Hong Kongers do but Chinese are not going to try to turn themselves into Manchus. Especially not when there are almost no Manchu-speakers left by this time. No, that possibility died with the willow palisade.
 
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NoMommsen

Donor
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If there is some kind of language reform that makes the Manchurian spoken dialect of Han Chinese distinct from the rest of China, or a major divergence between Manchukuo's writing system and the rest of China, this could strengthen a Manchukuo identity. There might be a split over simplified vs. traditional characters, a new Manchurian writing system, or the adoption of some Japanese characters. The Manchurian language does have its own alphabet, but I don't know if that could be adapted to spoken Mandarin easily.

...
Reinventing/modernizing language and writing even if the majority of the populace isn't "trained" in its origins for the purpose to form an own identity ... there's a well established template and living example for :

Israel and "New Hebrew" or "Ivrit" as its called in its own​

... and if done with japanese ... "help" also still serving the latters ambitions.
 

Indiana Beach Crow

Monthly Donor
But what you're proposing is creating a fake heritage instead of naturally forging a sense of separateness over time due to political separation, different economic development and heavy Japanese interference in various aspects of life. The Han Chinese obviously weren't Manchus by virtue of living in Manchuria and tended to hold Han heritage in higher regard than that of the Manchus, who many still considered fundamentally barbarian and who were still resented for their domination in the Qing dynasty, which did not exactly end on a good note. That does not mean that someone cannot some to see themselves as Manchurian Chinese and distinguish this identity from "other" Chinese in the sense that Hong Kongers do but Chinese are not going to try to turn themselves into Manchus. Especially not when there are almost no Manchu-speakers left by this time. No, that possibility died with the willow palisade.

So what you're saying is, there's not a lot of Manchurian candidates left?
 
Sane or Imperial Policy. Choose one.

Not really, you can have a Japanese Empire that is sane IF it is run by completely different people with completely different policies. There have been many empires over the centuries that had significant differences between each other in structure and policies.
 
Macedonians were unreasonably severed from Bulgarians, Montenegrins are somehow growing more distinct from Serbians, etc. Not difficult.
 
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