Could a Fascist Czechoslovakia have defeated Germany?

  • Yes-the Czechs hold the line and Germany is beaten back and Hitler is overthrown or capitulates.

    Votes: 13 18.1%
  • No-it is a bloody fight, but with no international assistance Czechoslovakia is doomed.

    Votes: 59 81.9%

  • Total voters
    72
The Freikorps was a militia, not a professional army with the full range of military weapons and combined arms support.


Seriously? Germany had a tiny fraction of their military to commit, rather than the full weight of it they'd have in 1938. As it was they committed a reinforced corps to occupy a nation of over 1 million people supported by the OSS and US air units and were actually outnumbered by the Slovaks. Soviet support from the independent Slovak forces fighting for the Soviets and Czech paratroopers in the Soviet army were brought in as well and they flew in equipment and supplies. Plus the Soviets were bashing away at the Dukla Pass, meaning only limited German forces were able to be committed to fight the Slovaks. All of this means the 1944 situation would not be even remotely relevant to the 1938 war.
Seriously.
USAF did one or two landings which maine purpose was to recover freed US pilots previouse held in POW camps. OSS support? Are you trying hard to make me laugh? It was marginal.

Good 20 000 pf Slovak numbers were partisans, militia as you call them and there was basically equality in menpower committed if we count partisans too. There was not Czech paratroopers however. Maybe you are refering to Czechoslovak parabrigade, which mepower was mostly Slovak. Brigade some 2000 men strong, brought in pieces and immediately committed to fight.
There was one Czechoslovak fighter regiment comitted, mostly Czech pilots. However hardly we can say Slovaks had air superiority. Air was at best contested, both sides able to run some attacks on ground troops.
Germans had clearly armament superiority, as well as better troops. Most Slovaks were reservists called in September. Partisans, especially under Soviet command many time retreated without giving fight. This way Strecno pass was lost when partisans under Velicko I believe retreated, "forgot" to notify army and uncovered flanks to Slovak Army units.

Yes I do claim Czechoslovakia would be able to fight at least so long. Especially if 2nd and 4th army would manage to held in Moravia or retreat to Slovak Czech border. Supported by 3rd Army in Slovakia they could hold there. 1st army however would be eventually lost. Interestingly most mobile formations were located with 2nd, 3rd and 4th armies if I remember correctly, as well as mobile reserves. And interestingly most reserves Czechoslovak command kept in western Slovakia, Eastern Moravia.

At the end Czechoslovakia would lost but it would not be walk in the park, end no two weeks vacations either.

Meanwhile Germany can say bye bye to CKD, Skoda, Avia as well as ZB and forgett about some 500 tanks their incorporated OTL, plus shitload of artillery and small arms.
I do however understand Benes's creapy satisfaction when LT-35's and LT-38' were rolling through France.
 
BTW Wiking, yes 2nd Czechoslovak parabrigade did relatively well and they arrival was huge help, especially moral, as some 92% of paras were Slovaks from former Fast Division. Many of them on frontlines since 1941, few even veterans of 1939 wars with Hungary and Poland. Some of these men fought defensive battles on Mius river in 1941/42. These were the men who were among first Axis soldiers in Rostov summer 1942. Sometimes Rostov capture is credited only to SS Wiking. Or were fighting in Caucasus in fall .1942. So I guess they learn something and it may showed in late September, October 1944. So indeed it was good to have them there along reservists called in September 1944.

And Slovaks could do better if Velicko's partisan didn't started too early, if 13 Staffel wasn't sent against American bombers in early summer where it hot anihilated, if Gen Malar, Ritter Kreuz, instead of flying to capitol took his 2 Eastern divisions against Germans at Carpatians.

If Slovak Ju-87 staffel was moved to central Slovakia, etc etc. There is planty of good POD.

For example col Markus, another veteran from Eastern Front did pretty well with what he saved from Eastern army and broke through to insurgents. Later commanding tactical group.
 
So what happens with the Sudeten Germans in a fascist Czechoslovakia being invaded by the Nazis? Pro-German partisan uprisings followed by mass repression?
 
Thanks for the resource, the Czechs already had total armor superiority, though 45 tanks are certainly going to help.

I don't understand why everyone thinks the Czechs would get curbstomped. In this scenario they'd probably have a similar number of fighter aircraft, the Czechs are on the defensive, and the Germans lack the blitzkrieg of 1939. The Czechs don't have to take Berlin, they just have to hold the line. Then the German Army would likely remove Hitler from power, as in an ittl Oster conspiracy.

Because even in 1938 the Germans still have total conventional superiority in terms of artillery, manpower, and an offensively oriented experienced general staff. The Czechs simply do not have the numbers, reserves or capability to hold off a german invasion. I would say there is a risk that the German military would remove Hitler, but they still wouldn't withdraw and accept the spectre of a military defeat. At best the Czechs can buy themselves 2-3 months of resistance.
 
Because even in 1938 the Germans still have total conventional superiority in terms of artillery, manpower, and an offensively oriented experienced general staff. The Czechs simply do not have the numbers, reserves or capability to hold off a german invasion. I would say there is a risk that the German military would remove Hitler, but they still wouldn't withdraw and accept the spectre of a military defeat. At best the Czechs can buy themselves 2-3 months of resistance.
Of course Germans had superiority. Germany had app 7x bigger population. But their superiry in many armaments didn't even reach 2x.
They were more tanks, but really modern Pz III were in smaller numbers, Pz IV just few tems at the time.

Czechoslovak Generality? Most of themwere veterans of WWI, veterams from Siberia, where they showed their superiority in mobile warfare against Reds. Because that what Czechoslovak campaign in Siberia was.

But I agree with you. 2-3 month. 4 max is what Czechoslovakia would get without outside help.
 
Since this is a Fascist Czechoslovakia, let's say Italy gives aid. Without declaring war I do not see a significant difference that any Italian aid can give, I'm not sure Mussolini would go to that far, though.
 
How does the Italian aid get there?
For example through Romania.

Depends what aid Italians give. If they directly attack o to Austria it may solve Czechoslovak problems with southern borders.

On other what would be Italian relations with Hungary? Still good? If so by train directly from Italy.



But fascist or not fascist for that POD long before would be necessary. OTL in 1918/19 Czechoslovakia was choosing main ally. OTL France won and Italian military mission went home.

Edit:If Italy was willing Czechoslovakia, I giess help could go through Austria as there probably wouldn't be Anschluss.
 
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