WoT WI: russia joins the Coalition

DusanUros

Banned
It certainly would be nice if that unpleasantness in Northern Ireland had ended sixty years ago.

Yet still the IRA wasnt exactly insurgery....IF there was actually an IRA and wasnt the MI5 behind all that, which wouldnt surprise me. And England didnt win the insurgencies in Cyprus and Greece. And if i recall correctly neither in India.
 

MrP

Banned
Yet still the IRA wasnt exactly insurgery....IF there was actually an IRA and wasnt the MI5 behind all that, which wouldnt surprise me. And England didnt win the insurgencies in Cyprus and Greece. And if i recall correctly neither in India.

My eyes bulged. Then I realised you're probably just trolling. It's generally frowned on here to do that sort of thing. If you honestly believe that MI5 is behind the IRA, on the other hand, you have my utmost sympathy.
 

DusanUros

Banned
My eyes bulged. Then I realised you're probably just trolling. It's generally frowned on here to do that sort of thing. If you honestly believe that MI5 is behind the IRA, on the other hand, you have my utmost sympathy.

I dont, but i generally wouldnt care if it was or if it wasnt. I was trying to point out that England doesnt have as much experience and they said about insurgencies, considering she lost quite a few of them fights.
 
Hey DU, are you Serbian by any chance? Your name seems to suggest it but just wanted to check.

And yeah Russia managed to get the Muslim fighters to back off, pretty recently. I just didnt know when the last time the Uk defeated Muslim terrorist. I feel sorry for starting a small fight.
 

MrP

Banned
I dont, but i generally wouldnt care if it was or if it wasnt. I was trying to point out that England doesnt have as much experience and they said about insurgencies, considering she lost quite a few of them fights.

I don't think this is a productive area of discussion, since it's venturing into that area of "I think x is an insurgency, but y is not" "Oh, yeah?! Well, I say that blahblahblah!" My only aim is to state that the Troubles are not born of MI5 terrorism, and that to suggest that they are is . . . mad or bad, Lord Byron.

I can't believe I've composed a post which had to state that MI5 was not responsible for blowing up bits of Manchester, London, Warrington, Omagh &c, &c. I should - like the tramp in comedies - peer at my bottle of booze and stop drinking, I suppose.
 

DusanUros

Banned
Hey DU, are you Serbian by any chance? Your name seems to suggest it but just wanted to check.

And yeah Russia managed to get the Muslim fighters to back off, pretty recently. I just didnt know when the last time the Uk defeated Muslim terrorist. I feel sorry for starting a small fight.

Born and bred seljak in dijaspora. :D

Well, actually the whole argument is about who is better at defeating insurgensies (between UK and Russia), which came from "Russians not being as 'noble' as UK or American soldiers would be.
 
Born and bred seljak in dijaspora. :D

Well, actually the whole argument is about who is better at defeating insurgensies (between UK and Russia), which came from "Russians not being as 'noble' as UK or American soldiers would be.

Actually I believe the real difference is that the Brits and US are more subject to media scrutiny, let me tell you it is much is easier to just lay a whole village to waste then what we try to do. Pin pointing targets is not the easiest thing in the world. It is much easier to just hit it with a big stick. The Russians would not have media imbedded with them when they launch every mission. We on the other hand apparently can't get enough of that bullshit! And I also have a feeling that the Russian people are not going to react like the American people to the use of more extreme amounts of force. Hell I would love to have the Russians here with us. We could give them a chunk of the country and simply tell them to have at. But I highly doubt they would ever step back into afghanistan. Nore would the Afghani's be to pleased to see them.
 
Yet still the IRA wasnt exactly insurgery....IF there was actually an IRA and wasnt the MI5 behind all that, which wouldnt surprise me. And England didnt win the insurgencies in Cyprus and Greece. And if i recall correctly neither in India.

There wasn't an insurgency in India. That was sort of the point.

And it's Britain!
 
Hold everything

There was most certainly an insurgency in Indias.
Subaas C. Bose and the Indian National Army.
Fought with the Japanese and took over burma.
 
There was most certainly an insurgency in Indias.
Subaas C. Bose and the Indian National Army.
Fought with the Japanese and took over burma.

If the Indian National Army was an insurgency, General Paulus and the German Liberation Commitee were a national anti-Nazi struggle, the Vlasovites were an anti-communist rebellion, the wartime Principality of Montenegro was an Axis power, and so on and so forth.

If Burma is India, geography has gone a bit wrong.
 

Susano

Banned
If the Indian National Army was an insurgency, General Paulus and the German Liberation Commitee were a national anti-Nazi struggle, the Vlasovites were an anti-communist rebellion, the wartime Principality of Montenegro was an Axis power, and so on and so forth.

If Burma is India, geography has gone a bit wrong.

Well, it was, Montengro that is. For one thing at least it was indeed in Montenegro ;) (and an Italian vasall, but hey, nobodys perfect!)
 
Well, it was, Montengro that is. For one thing at least it was indeed in Montenegro ;) (and an Italian vasall, but hey, nobodys perfect!)

The NDH I might agree with, but "Montenegro" was a name and perhaps four battalions. The Germans raised as many Norwegians. The Prince of Montenegro, to his credit, had nothing to do with it. It was ruled by Italian govenors, it never even nominally administered all its claimed territory, and most of the collaborators in it were Chetnik. Even among the uniformed traitors, half of them were called "Serbian"!

Perhaps I should have said the Independant State of Macedonia. :p

Anyway, the point is that it's an insult to Indians, who organised the largest volunteer army in the history of the world against fascism and then went on to win their independence by peaceful methods in an unprecedented way, to say that Bose and his gang, who were used as coolies by the same Japanese authorities that slaughtered Indians on the Andaman islands, were an "Indian insurgency".

And to be less emotive, it's not relevant to the (long-dead) topic. They were part of the conventional war in Burma. Britain gained no "experience in fighting insurgencies" from them.
 
A good yak yak

Thanks, friends.
As reguards Burma as a counterinsurgency struggle. Sir Robert Thompson, the greatest anti gurrliea theorist of the last 200 years, says,
in Make for the Hills, "The Burmese campagin was the clearest example of turning over control to a defeated group".
 
The British, if memory serves, were successful in putting down the Boer insurgency, coining the term 'concentration camp' in the process. Anyone can put down an insurgency, if they're willing to be 'frightful' enough in doing so, if only by imposing a Tacitean peace.
 

MacCaulay

Banned
Yet still the IRA wasnt exactly insurgery....IF there was actually an IRA and wasnt the MI5 behind all that, which wouldnt surprise me.

Alright...you owe me the beer I just spat out. Right now. And when I get that beer, you're going to tell me what insurgery is. Because I don't want a member of the IRA doing it to me.

I was trying to point out that England doesnt have as much experience and they said about insurgencies, considering she lost quite a few of them fights.

In the Indonesian Confrontation, the British military along with the ANZACs basically fought the Vietnam War how it should have been.

One thing the British didn't do that the Soviets and Americans did was strategic bombing. In Indonesia, a low-intensity war with relatively small targets, the British relied on light infantry units. The Soviets and Americans both eventually decided that perhaps if they just bombed the piss out of everything enough then maybe their enemy would give up.

Hell, there's a full chapter in The Russian General Staff's The Soviet-Afghan War: How a Superpower Fought and Lost about how dropping freefall bombs was a waste of high tech Backfire bombers and burned up goodwill.
The US wasn't doing so hot either lining up B-52s halfway across the ocean on Christmas.
 
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