Well basically the idea is to have Germany be as weakened as possible following WW2. The only thing I could think of would involve the French annexation of the Saarland and the Ruhr (ala the Monnet Plan) and the Dutch Annexation of German territory (ala the Baaker-Schut Plan).
Worst possible result for Germany Post WW2?
- Thread starter Enigmajones
- Start date
Have the Soviet Union conquer all of it, rather than split it between them and the western allies
For All Time did a good job with this:
-Enlarged East Germany
-Nuremburg, Leipzig and Berlin have suffered Nuclear Attack
-There is no real attempt to weed out Nazis from the country.
-SS/Wehrmacht civil war over the attempt to Kill Hitler
-Gas weapons used against Germany.
===========================
Topping this is hard, but what comes to mind:
-Failed D-Day in 1943 means that the Western Allies don't really get into Europe. (They get France and the Low Countries)
-Hitler dies of a drug overdose, Himmler takes over in 1944. He decides to use chemical weapons against the UK and the Soviets. The UK retaliates with Anthrax, leaving the Ruhr and Berlin as uninhabitable post-war.
-Because the Allies don't really get into Europe quickly, the Red Army advances to the Rhine in 1946. Stalin doesn't even want a unified Communist Germany, so he's going to do more than adjust its geography, he's going to Balkanize the state and apply NKVD terror until it sticks.
-In OTL, little effort was made to stop Soviet atrocities against the Germans until something like two years after the war ends. With no West Germany to worry about, these orders are never really given, and the Soviets continue to pillage, rape, and seek revenge across Germany for a decade.
-Stalin, of course, is reasonably cool with nations adjusting their borders at Germany's expense. The Dutch plan to annex territory is gracefully accepted, as is giving France the Saarland.
Germany is then busted up into sixteen little pieces, all of them competing for how enthusiastically loyal they are to Communist Liberation. Post Stalin Secretaries are willing to allow a bit more freedom inside the Warsaw Pact for most of its nations, but not the Germans. They deserve what they got.
-Enlarged East Germany
-Nuremburg, Leipzig and Berlin have suffered Nuclear Attack
-There is no real attempt to weed out Nazis from the country.
-SS/Wehrmacht civil war over the attempt to Kill Hitler
-Gas weapons used against Germany.
===========================
Topping this is hard, but what comes to mind:
-Failed D-Day in 1943 means that the Western Allies don't really get into Europe. (They get France and the Low Countries)
-Hitler dies of a drug overdose, Himmler takes over in 1944. He decides to use chemical weapons against the UK and the Soviets. The UK retaliates with Anthrax, leaving the Ruhr and Berlin as uninhabitable post-war.
-Because the Allies don't really get into Europe quickly, the Red Army advances to the Rhine in 1946. Stalin doesn't even want a unified Communist Germany, so he's going to do more than adjust its geography, he's going to Balkanize the state and apply NKVD terror until it sticks.
-In OTL, little effort was made to stop Soviet atrocities against the Germans until something like two years after the war ends. With no West Germany to worry about, these orders are never really given, and the Soviets continue to pillage, rape, and seek revenge across Germany for a decade.
-Stalin, of course, is reasonably cool with nations adjusting their borders at Germany's expense. The Dutch plan to annex territory is gracefully accepted, as is giving France the Saarland.
Germany is then busted up into sixteen little pieces, all of them competing for how enthusiastically loyal they are to Communist Liberation. Post Stalin Secretaries are willing to allow a bit more freedom inside the Warsaw Pact for most of its nations, but not the Germans. They deserve what they got.
usertron2020
Donor
The trouble with that is how long does even a fueherprinzip hold out internally against that?
Well, there is the Anglo American Nazi War scenario with the widespread (albeit not carpet) nukes, Antrhax on Berlin and the aftermath of nearly two decades of Nazi occupation of Europe (though personally I'd rate that timeline as essentially WWIII with Nazis more than an extended WWII).
I said after WW2, as in after Victory in Europe Day. And yes, I suppose the Morgenthau Plan would probably be the worst possible option. Does anyone know the exact plans for the International Zone? There was considered a possibility for annexation by several different European nations, most likely the Netherlands and France, but what would the politics of an International Zone really be like? And would North Germany be under Soviet control?
Snake Featherston
Banned
Germany destroys Leningrad in 1941 as its operational concept demands. Between the Red Army and Operation Vegetarian German is spoken only in Switzerland and various communities of the German diaspora, and German as a language and German culture no longer exist. Europe as a whole is thus far more impoverished and brutalized than IOTL.
Sean Mulligan
Banned
I'm pretty sure that Stalin supported a unified Germany and that the atrocities by Soviet troops stopped shortly after the war ended. As early as 1945, Soviet military leaders such as Rokossovsky issued orders for the shooting of looters and rapists
Saggin
Banned
A lot of those orders weren't really followed through and another Soviet general basically went "fuck it. Let the soldiers have their justice" when one of his aides were telling him that the soldiers were looting shit. It depended on the sources. Also I thought Rokkokovosky's soldiers were more brutal on average than the other soviet armies (like, soviets knowing that and placing pamphlets in germany saying 'Rokkokosky is on your doorstep or w/e). But someone mentioned it might've been due to his soldiers advancing faster in Germany than other armies.
I THINK Berlin: The Final Battle mentions only the Soviet government segregating USSR soldiers from the general German population in 1947 stopped rape in general in Germany.
EDIT: some say Stalin was okay with a unified Germany as he didnt expect the "Western Allies" to agree to it. whether you agree or not, i personally dont agree much but hey Beria was willing to go for it.
How about Germany is broken up into as many as 6 states, Hannover, Hesse, Baden-Wurttenburg, Bavaria, Saxony and Brandenburg, major firms such as Krupp, IG Faben, Siemens etc are similarly dismantled with their assets being seized by the Allied powers. There wouldn't be a Morgenthau style forced return to pre-industrialism but the new states would be reduced down to the level of vassals.
MSZ
Banned
I'm surprised the most obvious anwser hasn't appeared yet.
The Germans are found universally guilty and sentenced to death. Their death camps are filled with their former owners and Germans are eradicated as a nation in a few years. Germany no longer exists.
Can't get worse than that.
The Germans are found universally guilty and sentenced to death. Their death camps are filled with their former owners and Germans are eradicated as a nation in a few years. Germany no longer exists.
Can't get worse than that.