Worst plausible Yankee victory

What is the costliest, bloodiest plausible North victory in the ACW, with a "pessimal" postwar United States? Or is this OTL?
 
Jackson survives Chancellorsville, does unto Pennsylvania the kinds of things Sherman does to Carolina, at the same time as the CSA retains its bloodthirsty policy toward internal dissenters and USCT men and officers. The result is a Union rather less sympathetic to the Vallandighams and far more so to the Thaddeus Stevenses from a desire for revenge, and you get a war with the gloves off. Sherman in South Carolina becomes the de facto US approach, the Confederacy behaves as it does IOTL, you get a chaotic and bloody mess and a Grimdark peace.
 
If you want to extend and worsen the OTL ACW, I'd start by looking at mid-to-late-war PODs that occasionally get brought up in hopes of producing a Confederate victory, but get shot down on the ground that they'd only delay the inevitable.

A Confederate victory at Gettysburg, for instance, is generally agreed to be too late to save the Confederacy, but it would have serious impact. Supposing the July 2 flanking attacks were successful, the Army of the Potomac would be forced to retreat, and would likely take heavier-than-OTL casualties. Pickett's Charge would be butterflied away, leaving the Army of Northern Virginia substantially stronger than OTL. Meade would likely be sacked. Lincoln might decided to pull troops from the Army of the Tennessee to reinforce the Army of the Potomac, which combined with the morale boost to the Confederates could delay the surrender of Vicksburg significantly. The war would likely drag on for several months longer, with more casualties on both sides.
 
There is not many ways to make it much worse for the US that would still lead to a US victory. Victory is going to have to look achievable to the American people prior to the Presidential election in 1864, or President Lincoln is going to be voted out of office and the Democrats will seek a negotiated peace based on an independent CSA.
 
If you want to extend and worsen the OTL ACW, I'd start by looking at mid-to-late-war PODs that occasionally get brought up in hopes of producing a Confederate victory, but get shot down on the ground that they'd only delay the inevitable.

A Confederate victory at Gettysburg, for instance, is generally agreed to be too late to save the Confederacy, but it would have serious impact. Supposing the July 2 flanking attacks were successful, the Army of the Potomac would be forced to retreat, and would likely take heavier-than-OTL casualties. Pickett's Charge would be butterflied away, leaving the Army of Northern Virginia substantially stronger than OTL. Meade would likely be sacked. Lincoln might decided to pull troops from the Army of the Tennessee to reinforce the Army of the Potomac, which combined with the morale boost to the Confederates could delay the surrender of Vicksburg significantly. The war would likely drag on for several months longer, with more casualties on both sides.

More likely the Army of the Cumberland, which is closer. Or the Army of the Ohio. Assuming it isn't 4th and 7th Corps (which are in Virginia).

Not to dispute the main point, just having to share the results of too much study.
 
Jackson survives Chancellorsville, does unto Pennsylvania the kinds of things Sherman does to Carolina, at the same time as the CSA retains its bloodthirsty policy toward internal dissenters and USCT men and officers. The result is a Union rather less sympathetic to the Vallandighams and far more so to the Thaddeus Stevenses from a desire for revenge, and you get a war with the gloves off. Sherman in South Carolina becomes the de facto US approach, the Confederacy behaves as it does IOTL, you get a chaotic and bloody mess and a Grimdark peace.
Throw in an eventual Lee death and have him replaced in the Confederate heart with a general who says "Yeah totally go to the ground, forever war against the North!" and we're off to the races.
 
There are several ways to make the war drag on a little bit longer, but generally speaking the Union did about as poorely as it could and still win. Another point I would like to bring up is that although it is possible for the CSA to win the war a much more plausible ATL would be for the Union to win sooner such as in my TL.The only way I could see the ACW be significantly longer and bloodier would be if the Confederates adopted guerrilla warfare on a larger scale.
 
Grant doesn't have an attack of concience, and continues frontal attacks a la cold harbor. Lots more union casualties, and, I would assume, lots more hatred as a result towards the south.

Coupled with Lee getting killed in the same manner as Jackson at some point along the way, and his replacement not telling the troops to give it up. It seems to me that Lee was the ONLY southern general who could have the men listen when he said "Give it up. Go home and raise crops and kids." but there were MANY generals who could have gotten away with "Disperse. Attack only when you're strong and the enemy is weak. Kill, burn, destroy federal troops and installations whenever you can."

Belushi td
 
Grant doesn't have an attack of concience, and continues frontal attacks a la cold harbor. Lots more union casualties, and, I would assume, lots more hatred as a result towards the south.

Coupled with Lee getting killed in the same manner as Jackson at some point along the way, and his replacement not telling the troops to give it up. It seems to me that Lee was the ONLY southern general who could have the men listen when he said "Give it up. Go home and raise crops and kids." but there were MANY generals who could have gotten away with "Disperse. Attack only when you're strong and the enemy is weak. Kill, burn, destroy federal troops and installations whenever you can."

Belushi td

Lee's replacement would most likely be Longstreet, and I don't see him issuing those kind of orders.
 
Grant doesn't have an attack of concience, and continues frontal attacks a la cold harbor. Lots more union casualties, and, I would assume, lots more hatred as a result towards the south.

Coupled with Lee getting killed in the same manner as Jackson at some point along the way, and his replacement not telling the troops to give it up. It seems to me that Lee was the ONLY southern general who could have the men listen when he said "Give it up. Go home and raise crops and kids." but there were MANY generals who could have gotten away with "Disperse. Attack only when you're strong and the enemy is weak. Kill, burn, destroy federal troops and installations whenever you can."

Belushi td

Grant never did frontal attacks. The best option is for him to decide to let Meade conduct the entire campaign and for the typical Meade attacks with no reconnaissance and planning but a lot of infighting with his fellow generals due to Grant being distracted by say, problems in Georgia.

The easiest route is to let Jackson live to burn down large parts of the North, killing sympathy for the Confederacy among Northern whites, coupled with arming blacks in North and South and you get a war to the last ditch with neither side caring about compassion or quarter, and the Copperhead movement strangled in its cradle.
 
There are several ways to make the war drag on a little bit longer, but generally speaking the Union did about as poorely as it could and still win. Another point I would like to bring up is that although it is possible for the CSA to win the war a much more plausible ATL would be for the Union to win sooner such as in my TL.The only way I could see the ACW be significantly longer and bloodier would be if the Confederates adopted guerrilla warfare on a larger scale.
Could you provide a link to that timeline? I'd like to read it.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
Turtledove actually has a rather good short shorty entitled Must and Shall which deals with a harsh Yankee peace. Basically Lincoln is killed by Confederate soldiers while inspecting fortifications outside of Washington in July of '64. Hamlin rides a Radical wave of outrage and grief to the White House and the North imposes a Carthaginian peace on the South.

The story itself takes place in New Orleans, 1942. A restive South is still occupied by Yankee troops, white males can't vote and blacks are supported as top-dogs by Union bayonets and through various grandfather clauses to keep the South a Republican stronghold.

But being HT, World War II is still going on in Europe. A Northern agent from the FBS (Federal Bureau of Suppression) goes down to the Big Easy to check up on rumored shipments of Nazi guns to Southern guerrilla groups. The big fear is that there may be a repeat of the German-backed Thanksgiving Revolt of WWI.
 
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