Worst General After 1900

[Garrison]

I'm surprised no one has nominated Douglas Haig. He was the poster boy for the bad generals of WWI: snobbish, egotistical, rose through the ranks fighting tribal forces in the Colonies and playing politics, more concerned with his image than casualty figures, threw away millions of lives in The Somme and Passchendaele. The German assessment of the British soldiers was "lions led by donkeys" and Haig was the supreme donkey.

Fortunately most people here know that 'Lions led by Donkeys' was invented by Alan Clark in his bid to sell a few more books and actual analysis of the conduct of the war tends to conclude that Haig was a competent General dealing with extraordinary circumstances that no one in Britain had planned for or expected.

 

[Garrison]

IMHO Haig's real failing was in pushing offensives too far when (in hindsight) they should have been shut down earlier. The Somme & Passchendaele offensives went on weeks, if not months, after they passed the law of diminishing returns.

A lot of that comes back to the backdrops those battles were fought against. The Somme was fought to pin down the Germans and prevent them transferring troops to Verdun, the British Generals were anything but enthusiastic about the location or timing of the battle. 3rd Ypres, of which Passchendaele was part, was in part a response to the French mutinies, buying time for the French to reorganize in the aftermath of the Nivelle offensive. In fact as far as a worst General goes maybe Nivelle should be a candidate since his overpromising broke the morale of an entire army?

 

[Athelstane]

Cho really wasn't much of a field commander- he held staff positions right up until the Battle of Okinawa, where he masterminded the defensive tunnels... and then wasted his troops in an "active defence" (not-a-step-back orders and Banzai charges), before committing seppuku when the battle was clearly lost.

He likely wasn't a very good staff officer either- he was always old for his ranks and his positions were low prestige ones. He was known to be a heavy smoker and drinker, a degenerate gambler and often sought the company of prostitutes. He ruthlessly beat his subordinates, to the point that even the IJA regarded him as notorious for that.

Even granting all of that evaluation - and my sense is that he wasn't that bad at tactical command - my point would still be that it's hard to see how that gets him on the short list for worst post-1900 general.

He's getting mooted, I think, because he was such a vicious nutter with offensive politics and a penchant for war crimes. But the title under consideration is worst general, not worst human being.

 

[marathag]

Right. That guy kept bungling against the Austro-Hungarians in WWI. Long series of wasteful offensives including a big defeat (or big victory by the Austrians and Germans) at Caporetto.

Terrible? Certainly. Worse than Westmoreland? I'm not sure.

He could kill in week what took years for Westy.

Westy was a poor General- but not even in 'Bungler' catagory
Not close to what's needed 'worst' territory
Gen. Samsonov of 1914 infamy, he's in the running for getting an entire Army destroyed

 

[Whiteshore]

Only problem with that is, he was tapped to be Chief of Staff after the sudden, unexpected (supposedly), and relatively young (62) death of his predecessor as CoS, Alberto Pollio, JUST before the "July Days" of 1914. Some suspect it was actually an assassination, as Pollio's heart attack was misdiagnosed as stomach troubles and he was given a too-strong "purgative" which finished him off. (Incidentally not the 1st instance of "death by purgative" I've heard of). Pollio was by all accounts a more competent man than Cadorna, BUT was a firm supporter of the Triple Alliance and was married to a Hungarian/Austrian noblewoman. One reason Cadorna was selected as his replacement was that Cadorna was considerable more pro-Entente than Pollio had been.

My point that it would have been hard for him to do any worse outside of being actively in the payroll of the Austrians still stands.

 

[Aghasverov]

My point that it would have been hard for him to do any worse outside of being actively in the payroll of the Austrians still stands.

And not disputed by me!

The A-H Empire could have at least cut him a small stipend in gratitude for each of the, what, eleven failed offenses he supervised?

 

[Athelstane]

He could kill in week what took years for Westy.

Westy was a poor General- but not even in 'Bungler' catagory
Not close to what's needed 'worst' territory
Gen. Samsonov of 1914 infamy, he's in the running for getting an entire Army destroyed

I mean - well, I think Westmoreland would have done all right commanding a division or a corps in a land war against the Soviets in Germany.

For counterinsurgency in SE Asia, he was out of his depth. Abrams was much better.

Whereas, as you say, Cadorna and Samsonov were flat out incompetent in ANY context.

 

[wcv215]

I don’t believe “lions led by donkeys” was a German comment. It came from post war British politicians and intelligentsia looking to create a new narrative about the war.

It supposedly came from a letter back to Britain during the Crimean War, attributed to a Russian. The first solid time the phrase gets used was in an article by Karl Marx in 1855, describing the British Army as lions led by asses, reported to be a Russian joke. It came to be applied to the British army of WWI in 1921 in an autobiography of her life in Berlin during the war written by the English woman Evelyn von Walstat.

 

[IndefatigableRN]

It supposedly came from a letter back to Britain during the Crimean War, attributed to a Russian. The first solid time the phrase gets used was in an article by Karl Marx in 1855, describing the British Army as lions led by asses, reported to be a Russian joke. It came to be applied to the British army of WWI in 1921 in an autobiography of her life in Berlin during the war written by the English woman Evelyn von Walstat.

Fascinating.

I guess it gets its current cultural importance from Alan Clark's book.

 

[TxAggie]

Most of the picks ITT are for WWI generals, and I think context had to be factored in there. WWI was just a flat-out bad situation for any general. They simply couldn't move - if you asked your men on the Western Front to step out of their front-line trenches for 5 minutes and pick their noses, you'd probably be looking at several hundred casualties from it.

Were there rank incompetents like Cadorna? Absolutely. He would've lost any war you put him in.

Were there some classists who really just saw their men as chits on a board and threw their lives away carelessly? Absolutely.

But I don't know how any general could look good in that environment, no matter how talented they were. Brusilov probably led the most successful offensive in the entire war, and even that was Pyrrhic.

In the case of a commander like Douglas Haig, I don't know how you can call him a butcher when basically every option he had available to him was a poor one.

 

[Jimbo808]

Omg most of these generals are class of 1918.

Just to play devils advocate I'm nominating stomin normin Schwarzkopf.

Yeah, he won. But... With all that military power, technology edge, airpower surely it should've been over in a week?

 

[Orangecar]

Probably Idi Amin. Started an idiotic and unecessary war against a larger and more powerful neighbour for no real logical reason

 

[Tibi088]

My point that it would have been hard for him to do any worse outside of being actively in the payroll of the Austrians still stands.

Looking at his competency if he would have been on Vienna's payroll and intended to loose he would have unintentionally won the war for Italy.

 

[Coulsdon Eagle]

A lot of that comes back to the backdrops those battles were fought against. The Somme was fought to pin down the Germans and prevent them transferring troops to Verdun, the British Generals were anything but enthusiastic about the location or timing of the battle. 3rd Ypres, of which Passchendaele was part, was in part a response to the French mutinies, buying time for the French to reorganize in the aftermath of the Nivelle offensive. In fact as far as a worst General goes maybe Nivelle should be a candidate since his overpromising broke the morale of an entire army?

Very true when both offensives were launched, but well before the end the circumstances had changed.

Nivelle - betrayed by his own publicity (which exponentially increased the lack of security) and his own self-belief that he too continued the Chemin des Dames campaign after the first disasterous few days. Not a bad shout, but I would be tempted more by Cadorna or Evert.

Can we throw in Ludendorff for his mis-handling of Kaiserschlact by following short-term tactical successes instead of sticking to the main strategic objectives?

 

[Garrison]

Can we throw in Ludendorff for his mis-handling of Kaiserschlact by following short-term tactical successes instead of sticking to the main strategic objectives?

I would totally support Ludendorff and Hindenburg since they come as a pair. One major victory against a wholly disorganized enemy has tended to cover multiple military mistakes, and if you believe Colonel Max Hoffmann Hindenburg deserves little credit for Tannenberg. In addition to the Kaiserschlacht Hindenburg also has to carry a lot of the blame for promulgating the 'stabbed in the back' myth.

 

[Whanztastic]

How about outside of a specific war - André Zeller, Edmond Jouhaud, Raoul Salan and Maurice Challe?

 

[sampleswift]

WWII generals: Many of Italy's Generals? The Italian WWII army was considered the weakling of the Axis...
Admittedly Mussolini gave Italy's generals a bad situation.

 

[SealTheRealDeal]

WWII generals: Many of Italy's Generals? The Italian WWII army was considered the weakling of the Axis...
Admittedly Mussolini gave Italy's generals a bad situation.

Mussolini was a worse back seat driver than Hitler.

 

[ShortsBelfast]

How about outside of a specific war - André Zeller, Edmond Jouhaud, Raoul Salan and Maurice Challe?

Politically inept, reactionary and war criminals, yes. Shitty human beings, yes. Poor generals not so much, after all they won the war even if they lost the politics. Unless you are talking morally worst and, even then, there would be number of Japanese and German commanders that would rank higher up the list.

 

[Comte de Geneve]

M. Whanztastic, Have you a vendetta against the defenders of l'Algerie Francaise. May M. Chacal pay you a visit. As far as French Colonial failures go, let me recommend Henri Navarre, the architect of Dien Bien Phu. A failure with great significance for many nations other than France.