Worst Confederate General

Worst Confederate General

  • James Longstreet

    Votes: 2 1.9%
  • Richard Ewell

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • Braxton Bragg

    Votes: 79 73.8%
  • Leonidas Polk

    Votes: 21 19.6%
  • Joseph E. Johnston

    Votes: 4 3.7%

  • Total voters
    107
Actually, there were statements from both Union and Confederate survivors claiming there was a massacre.

And Forrest's own report of the battle largely agrees with Wikipedia, not you, on casualties. Forrest said that 228 Union troops, "were buried on the evening of the battle, and quite a number were buried the next day by details from the gun-boat fleet." and that "We captured 164 Federals, 75 negro troops"

So if the Wikipedia entry was inflated, it should be claiming that there were at least 467 Union dead. Throw in those "quite a number" buried the next day, plus any wounded and the number would easily exceed 500.

Instead, Wikipedia says "the Union losses were reported as 277 to 297 dead."

Also, using Forrest's numbers, his troops buried nearly 40% of the Union troops on just the first day. That's unusually high casualties for the defenders of a storming.
March 6, 1836, 181 out of 187 defenders of a old Spanish Mission near San Antonio Tx were killed in the assault. The other six were executed not taken prisoner.
480 BC 300 elite troops and 500 allies assaulted and killed to the man in a pass in Greece.
30 April,1863 Hacienda Camarón Mexico 65 French troops die to the man. For some reason the Légion étrangère keep the wooden hand of the Commander of this battle as an Icon.
22 Jan. 1879, 800 out of 850 British troops and as many as 200 native allies die in the assault of Chemsford's camp at Isandlwana.

That is three assaults that killed 100% and one that killed 80% of the defenders Ft Pillow's defenders had about 60% killed. Three of these assaults happened within 30 years of Ft.Pillow.
 
I recall reading an article somewhere that made a plausible case that Hood "threw" the battle in order to deny Johnston the credit that a decisive victory would have given him, as Hood was already scheming for command of the Army of Tennessee. I myself am skeptical about this, but that fact that such a case could be made speaks volumes about his performance there.

I wouldn't doubt it, Hood was an idiotic, power crazed loon.
 
March 6, 1836, 181 out of 187 defenders of a old Spanish Mission near San Antonio Tx were killed in the assault. The other six were executed not taken prisoner.
480 BC 300 elite troops and 500 allies assaulted and killed to the man in a pass in Greece.
30 April,1863 Hacienda Camarón Mexico 65 French troops die to the man. For some reason the Légion étrangère keep the wooden hand of the Commander of this battle as an Icon.
22 Jan. 1879, 800 out of 850 British troops and as many as 200 native allies die in the assault of Chemsford's camp at Isandlwana.

That is three assaults that killed 100% and one that killed 80% of the defenders Ft Pillow's defenders had about 60% killed. Three of these assaults happened within 30 years of Ft.Pillow.

Just to clarify:
Thermoplyae - 300 Spartans, 700 Thespians, 400 Thebans, plus some Helots. The Thebans surrendered to the Persians. That's about 60% dead.

Camerone - French casualties were 43 dead, with the rest captured. That's 66% dead for a group that swore to battle to the death.

The defenders at Fort Pillow did not swear to fight to the death. As soon as the Confederates breached the walls of the fort, they broke and fled. Yet the Union troops took 60% fatalities.
 

burmafrd

Banned
Love how 67th puts so much faith in the numbers given by the medical section of the AOP. They are SO WELL RESPECTED.
(insert uncontrollable laughter here)

I am curious 67th. Could you name a respected military historian that agrees with you (by respected I mean one considered unbiased and accurate) about McClellan.
 

67th Tigers

Banned
Love how 67th puts so much faith in the numbers given by the medical section of the AOP. They are SO WELL RESPECTED.
(insert uncontrollable laughter here)

I am curious 67th. Could you name a respected military historian that agrees with you (by respected I mean one considered unbiased and accurate) about McClellan.

Russell Beatie? Joseph Harsh? Thomas Roland?

I understand you're stuck with a 1960's originated mindset on the subject, so doubt you've ever got further than McPherson.
 

burmafrd

Banned
Beatie saying McClellan as good as Lee?
Josepph Harsh has campaigned for mcClellan for years and I question his objectivity.
Roland- do you mean charles Pierce Roland?
I cannot find this other Roland if there is one.

OK its ROWLAND. Now I know who you are talking about. Does not say much for you when you cannot even spell his name right.

And maybe you might not want to use him for a rebuttal source since I notice he is savaged pretty well in a lot of the reviews on his book.

So frankly your response is pretty weak.

It is a case in the last 10 years or so that some trend has come in trying to make little mac look better.
And that is not a plus in its favor- historical revisionism based on the idea that everyone else was wrong is a very poor way to go about things.

Unfortunately 67th you fall into that area.
 
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Take him! Please! With our compliments!

Brigadier General Gideon Pillow at Fort Donelson. After the battle, Grant judged him so worthless he released him to the CSA Army, feeling Pillow fighting FOR the Confederates was the best thing for the Union!:p:p:p
 
Hood was auditioning for Johnson's job while attacking Johnson behind the latter's back and it IS true that his behavior while Johnson still commanded before Atlanta seemed more restrained than the norm.

On the other hand his recklessness after replacing Johnson could also be explained as the action of a normally headstrong fellow promoted above his capacity*, a promotion extremely unpopular with his own army, under the dubious circumstances of General Braxton Bragg having arrived with little intention of considering fairly either Johnson OR the other candidates for replacement such as Hardee.


*Since Hood never had any major fiascos in his service during the war prior to this it seems fair to assume he was reasonably competent at the lower levels of command.
 
UT2020-World's most pathetic nitpicker

Hood was auditioning for Johnson's job while attacking Johnson behind the latter's back and it IS true that his behavior while Johnson still commanded before Atlanta seemed more restrained than the norm.

On the other hand his recklessness after replacing Johnson could also be explained as the action of a normally headstrong fellow promoted above his capacity*, a promotion extremely unpopular with his own army, under the dubious circumstances of General Braxton Bragg having arrived with little intention of considering fairly either Johnson OR the other candidates for replacement such as Hardee.
Joseph E. Johnston. "t":p
 
Jubilation T. Cornpone**, -- The Man who Lost the War -- and had Lincoln declare his birthplace a National Historic Site.

**L'il Abner
Jubilation T. Cornpone:A town as forlorn as Dogpatch is bound to be hard up for heroes. Thus it comes as no surprise that its most famous son, memorialized by a statue, is civil war General Jubilation T. Cornpone, best known for "Cornpone's Retreat," "Cornpone's Disaster" and "Cornpone's Rout." But what he is really best known for is inspiring the most rousing and memorable song in the popular "Li'l Abner musical. The first verse:
"When we fought the Yankees and Victory was near, who was there to lead the charge that took us safe to the rear? Why it was Jubilation T. Cornpone, old toot-your-own-horn pone. Jubilation T. Cornpone, a man who knew no fear."
 
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