Worst 10 officers of each WWII power.

According to Aberdeen which tested the 17 pounder (Sabot) in 1946, the accuracy for that round beyond ~475 meters was unacceptable. APCBC was "good". HE_C was acceptable out to ~ 1450 meters.

Yeah the Sabot wasn't good - post war determined that it was the velocity that destabilised it

The Canadians used a rubber 'petals' from 46 (IIRC) and the British from the early 50s

The same round was effectively used in the 77mm on the Comet which had a MV about 300 fps less and 'that' sabot was very accurate with out any of the barn door missing properties.

That all being said the standard 17 pounder AP had a Pen only slightly less than the 76 Sabot round and if a 17 pounder armed tank did bump into a KT at least it had a chance with the Sabot!
 
Churchill as overall commander.
"we must not upset those at the Air Ministry."
Greece DURING Compass
Churchill was a politician, not an active military officer, during WW2 (unlike the chief maniac in Berlin, who gave himself multiple military ranks once his underlings started failing to live up to his vision.) And once Brooke and Eisenhower were in place, they were capable of sitting on Churchill and any of his wilder and less-practicable ideas, reminding him as necessary that he was a politician, and not a military officer.
(One example of Churchill being sat upon, was his wanting to start second El Alamein in September 1942; Brooke, Alexander and Montgomery told him what they thought about that and he ranted about minefields and defences that the Axis were planting, but caved in in the end and allowed 8th Army the month to actually do the training and equipping that the actual real military commanders wanted to do.)
 
He does appear to have kept Churchill out of the Navy's hair fairly successfully. Not the RN's optimal leader I grant you but probably not deserving of a place in the ten worst either.
Of course he did send force Z out on its lonesome when it would have made more sense to keep it at Ceylon until it could be reinforced
 

McPherson

Banned
Of course he did send force Z out on its lonesome when it would have made more sense to keep it at Ceylon until it could be reinforced

Pound along with Phillips was the author of the last version of the Singapore Bastion Defense. Clueless about naval geography and logistics. Absolutely clueless. He belongs on the list.
 
Of course he did send force Z out on its lonesome when it would have made more sense to keep it at Ceylon until it could be reinforced
He as in Pound or Churchill? I think sending force Z was really decided by the cabinet.
Pound along with Phillips was the author of the last version of the Singapore Bastion Defense. Clueless about naval geography and logistics. Absolutely clueless. He belongs on the list.
Why clueless? Pre Fall of FIC it works fine and post its to late to do anything about it due to more pressing priorities....?
 
He as in Pound or Churchill? I think sending force Z was really decided by the cabinet.
Why clueless? Pre Fall of FIC it works fine and post its to late to do anything about it due to more pressing priorities....?
Honestly Pound should have found a solution to keep force Z in reserve....which given the age of Repulse(who unlike her sister hadn't been rebuilt)shouldn't have been that hard just make her have serious condenser issues for a week or two
 
Honestly Pound should have found a solution to keep force Z in reserve....which given the age of Repulse(who unlike her sister hadn't been rebuilt)shouldn't have been that hard just make her have serious condenser issues for a week or two
The problem with that is that removed the perceived deterrent effect and therefore the entire point of sending force Z.....

I think with hindsight you should send it to Singapore and then quickly on to a good will tour of DEI and Australia to show them you are defending them, by 8th they would be far away south heading to Perth and safety. That or send then to join US pacific fleet and hope they are out with the fast carriers come PH time?
 
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The problem with that is that removed the perceived deterrent effect and therefore the entire point of sending force Z.....

I think with hindsight you should send it to Singapore and then quickly on to a good will tour of DEI and Australia to show them you are defending them, by 8th they would be far away south heading to Perth and safety. That or send then to join US pacific fleet and hop they are out with the fast carriers come PH time?
Of course Repulse would need a serious upgrade to its AA suite which would take awhile given the need to swap out its single purpose 4" guns for dual purpose ones(and you might as well refit her while your at it), so she's probably ready by Midway when you factor in transit time with POW doing excellent work during Coral Sea and the carrier raids indeed its presence probably saves Lexington although it won't save the almost as valuable Neosho unless some big butterflies flap their wings. Alternatively the ships join Sommervile's Far Eastern Fleet
 
Honestly Pound should have found a solution to keep force Z in reserve....which given the age of Repulse(who unlike her sister hadn't been rebuilt)shouldn't have been that hard just make her have serious condenser issues for a week or two

Lying to the Prime Minister about the condition of a major fleet unit is the sort of thing that starts people muttering about civilian control of the military and what are we fighting the war for. If Churchill found out he'd rightfully never trust Pound again (and of course, proving the counterfactual that the lie saved Force Z would be impossible).
 

McPherson

Banned
He as in Pound or Churchill? I think sending force Z was really decided by the cabinet.
Why clueless? Pre Fall of FIC it works fine and post its to late to do anything about it due to more pressing priorities....?

By the time 1941 rolls around, it should have been evident to the British imperial general staff:
a. Churchill should be kept away from operational matters.
b. The Royal Navy had a 1940 staff study that showed that if the Japanese got as far as Hong Kong and the Hainan Island that for the British to cover and defend Singapore they had to project power clear into the South China Sea and win there. Now since both of those two professional nincompoops, Pound and Phillips, KNEW the results of that study since it was a devastating critique of their imbecile Singapore Bastion Defense Plan, I would kind of think they would and should be blamed when the brown goo hit the rotating screw when they tried to implement a plan they knew was doomed to fail. How do WE know this?
c. They (As in Churchill, the Foreign Office and the IGS) tried to con the Americans to move PACFLT to Singapore... The USN told them to go to hello in no uncertain terms because American admirals were just as smart as the British staff officers who panned the Singapore Bastion Defense, though the Americans did not know the exact details of the con the British tried to run on them
d. They, Pound and Phillips, (Might as well make it the entire Royal Navy) did not tell Churchill about b.

Boyd, Andrew; "The Royal Navy in Eastern Waters; Lynchpin of Victory" Seaforth Publishing (London 2017) pp 55-100, planning and rebuttals, 175-210 (The American con-job.) 225-310 (The actual disaster described.)

Honestly Pound should have found a solution to keep force Z in reserve....which given the age of Repulse(who unlike her sister hadn't been rebuilt)shouldn't have been that hard just make her have serious condenser issues for a week or two

Agreed. No flattop, keep Force Z back as a counterforce to deter IJN power projection into the Indian Ocean. By 1935, the competent admirals in the RN considered Singapore and Malaya an outpost write off to be retaken in a counterstroke once the IJN/IJA overextended.
The problem with that is that removed the perceived deterrent effect and therefore the entire point of sending force Z.....

The point of keeping Force Z back is to put it out of IJN reach and to keep it as a fleet in being until the counterforce move is possible. This is what eventually happens only it is the Americans who execute it after they screw up and put their own fleet within IJN tactical sortie radius reach at Pearl Harbor. This was the episode that taught Roosevelt to keep his hands off most of the operational execution of his political policies.

I think with hindsight you should send it to Singapore and then quickly on to a good will tour of DEI and Australia to show them you are defending them, by 8th they would be far away south heading to Perth and safety. That or send then to join US pacific fleet and hope they are out with the fast carriers come PH time?
Sink-ex Java Sea. Even bigger ABDA disaster.
Of course Repulse would need a serious upgrade to its AA suite which would take awhile given the need to swap out its single purpose 4" guns for dual purpose ones(and you might as well refit her while your at it), so she's probably ready by Midway when you factor in transit time with POW doing excellent work during Coral Sea and the carrier raids indeed its presence probably saves Lexington although it won't save the almost as valuable Neosho unless some big butterflies flap their wings. Alternatively the ships join Sommervile's Far Eastern Fleet
PoW is the South Dakota of the RN. Don't want her at all.
 
PoW is the South Dakota of the RN. Don't want her at all.
To be fair a lot her poor reputation comes from the fact that she never really got a proper shakedown since she was massively delayed by the Germans hitting her while she was fitting out. Give her a couple months of training and some combat experience on raids and she should do just fine. Besides a battleships real role when screening carriers is to be a bullet sponge(especially when one considers how battleship obsessed the IJN was)and barring the miracle hit that killed her otl she should be just fine. Besides while South Dakota had an idiot of a chief engineer she had a fine captain(as did POW) and did sterling work as an AA platform and so should POW
 
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Clark in Italy. Lord Beaverbrook. There was a Lord of the Admiralty who slept through all the meetings.
Dudley Pound. He had a brain tumour at the time I believe. Really should not have been in post. I had heard some allegations that he hid his illness.
 
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