World without TR

So I got this idea in my head and after thinking it out a bit more I decided I'd post it and get some feedback. Might turn it I to a full blown TL. Might not. Just depends on time and on what kinda response I get.

What if, in September 1901, William Mckinley doe NOT die from the assaisns bullet, and at around the same time, TR is killed in a mountain climbing accident. Leaves the possibilities pretty wide open, doesn't it? :)


Here are some things I was thinking might develops, either directly or due to butterflies:
-McKinley's brush with death leaves hist very frail. This causes the cabinet, along with the Speaker of the House, to step up their leadership roles. This will establish precedents that will ultimately establish a parliamentary system similar to what exists in Jello_Biafra's "Reds!" TL.
-not sure how exactly to bring this about, but would like to have the progressives leave the republican party and form their own, and at least develops a tri-party system in the US, if not an outright mutli-party system.
-Kaiser Wilhelm II dies somewhere between 1902-1904. Long term, his son will steer the country towards good relations with Britain, and Germany and the UK (and later the USA) will be on the same side in WWI, vs. France and Russia.


For the sake of butterflies, I was trying to think of a different way WWI might start, close to the same time, maybe 6-8 months later.


Also, who would likely become McKinley's new VP? And would he run for the Presidency? If not, who would be the republican successor?
 
Would TR have had the chance of a Republican or third party nomination for Presdient after a term as VP
I'm not sure. Would probably have depended on how McKinley's second term went, and if he supported TR being the Republican nominee. At any rate in this TL I'm thinking of, TR is dead so it wouldn't matter much anyway.
 
It will certainly have an interesting effect on the progressive movement. Without TR, they would have lost their most charismatic figure within the Republican party. I'd expect Hanna to be chosen as McKinley's successor, and for Republican progressives to grow increasingly disenchanted with the leadership of their party.

But its important to remember that TR, was fairly conservative by progressive standards. When a progressive finally enters the white house, I'd expect their administration to be much more liberal/radical than OTL's progressive presidencies.
 
A world without TR is a world not worth living in

Yeah haha I actually agree. I've been a fan of TR since I was a kid. :p
Here's something I haven't seen more of -- if McKinley was still President, and handled the situation less well, could the Venezuala Crisis have played out differently? Maybe escalated into a war?
Hmmm...could be. Under my starting scenario, the attack on President McKinley in Buffalo will leave him as a shadow of his former self, and his cabinet will largely pick up the slack. There will be multiple episodes of illness that will keep the president from many of his duties for months at a time. He'll die in mid 1905. Having war there would be interesting. That would definitely change the rest of the Century, having the Americas face off against Europe. :p

It will certainly have an interesting effect on the progressive movement. Without TR, they would have lost their most charismatic figure within the Republican party. I'd expect Hanna to be chosen as McKinley's successor, and for Republican progressives to grow increasingly disenchanted with the leadership of their party.

But its important to remember that TR, was fairly conservative by progressive standards. When a progressive finally enters the white house, I'd expect their administration to be much more liberal/radical than OTL's progressive presidencies.
Mark Hanna died in February 1904, at the age of 66. So I don't think he'd really work. What about Taft?
And yeah I do predict that the progressives would likely get frustrated with party leadership and likely form their own party.
 
Mark Hanna died in February 1904, at the age of 66. So I don't think he'd really work. What about Taft?
And yeah I do predict that the progressives would likely get frustrated with party leadership and likely form their own party.

I consider Hanna's death via Typhoid fever to be a fluke of history. The same butterfly's that induced TR's death, will likely change history enough so that he lives for a few years longer.

Without TR, I don't think Taft's ambitions would take him to the presidency. Didn't he always that that the Supreme Court was his true desire?
 
Good point about that being a likely "fluke of history". Kinda wanting the presidency to be weakened though so we get that more parliamentary form of government....do what if Hanna (would he be a likely VP pick to replace Teddy?) dies a year or two later, in 1905 or 1906? And who would be a good candidate for his VP that would be considered rather "weak willed" so that the informal precedents adopted during McKinley's 2nd administration continues?
 
Good point about that being a likely "fluke of history". Kinda wanting the presidency to be weakened though so we get that more parliamentary form of government....do what if Hanna (would he be a likely VP pick to replace Teddy?) dies a year or two later, in 1905 or 1906? And who would be a good candidate for his VP that would be considered rather "weak willed" so that the informal precedents adopted during McKinley's 2nd administration continues?

Have him be killed by an anarchist. As for a VP, any of NY's governor's during the era would be the ideal fit with the exception Charles Evens Hughes.
 
Thanks for the list. Why have him killed by an anarchist?
And would Hanna be picked to fill out the test of TR's term as VP?

Because assassinations are fun to play with in TL's and anarchist violence wasn't uncommon in Gilded Age America. Hanna would be a fitting target as he was an arch conservative and a major link between the GOP and the robber barons.

As for Hanna taking TR's spot, he was at that time the principal power broker of the Republican party.
 
Because assassinations are fun to play with in TL's and anarchist violence wasn't uncommon in Gilded Age America. Hanna would be a fitting target as he was an arch conservative and a major link between the GOP and the robber barons.

As for Hanna taking TR's spot, he was at that time the principal power broker of the Republican party.
So with McKinley in and out of the sick bed, would Hanna, as the GOP power broker, want to be VP to run things, unofficially, for McKinley?
 
Hey everybody, this is 1901 and VP's don't get replaced in case of a vacancy. Secretary of State John Hay is the next-in-line for the Presidency as he was IOTL.
 
Hey everybody, this is 1901 and VP's don't get replaced in case of a vacancy. Secretary of State John Hay is the next-in-line for the Presidency as he was IOTL.

I was wondering about that actually. That would actually work our pretty well for what I'm wanting to do.
 
How was the economy doing in 1905-08?

If it's doing well, President Hanna (or whoever) is a good bet for re-election. If not, it's presumably Bryan in 1908.
 
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