World War One what if

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MrHola

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What if the allies won at Gallipoli during World War I?

WHat would happen to Turkey? Or Russia?
 

Larrikin

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Which bit?

What if the allies won at Gallipoli during World War I?

WHat would happen to Turkey? Or Russia?

I'm not at all sure that the suggestion put forward by the US Ambassador that Istanbul would fall just because the Entente fleet arrived off it's shores. If all they do is force the Straits, and then the Bosporus, all that happens is that they have to do it again going south, against even tougher defences at the north end of the Bosporus.

If the landings succeed, then they have to clear the entire peninsular, and the cross to the Asian side and clear that back to at least field artillery range. Then they have to go and take at least the land around Istanbul and along both side of the Bosporus, plus the northern defences. If they succeed at this they can run supplies through to the Russians, and they cut the Turkish armies in half. In this situation I would expect the Turks to leave holding forces only against the Russians on either side of the Black Sea and attempt to crush the salient through their midst. If that failed they pretty much would have to capitulate, but if the succeed, which is by no means of the question, it would be a major disaster for the Entente.
 
The Allies could have won Gallipoli, which is just one theater in the Dardanelles Campaign. They would still have had to fought their way up the peninsula towards Istanbul and terrain would have been against them all the way. On the whole the it would be another of the numerous hard fought and hard won fronts that don't go anywhere. It probably would be a win that doesn't knockout the Ottomans.
 
That wouldn't cut the Ottoman armies in half; it would just deprive them of Thrace. If the defense of the capital looked hopeless, the army would just evacuate with the government to Anatolia and say "Bring it."

But it would dramatically increase the fighting power of Russia.

All these scenarios take for granted that Gallipoli only failed due to military mistakes on the part of the British and ignore that the Ottomans made none, and had a much superior army in 1915, in terms of training, experience, organization, leadership, and doctrine. I don't think it was actually possible for the Entente to win this. Despite overwhelming numbers and massive naval gunfire support, they failed.

The British failed to defeat the Ottomans in any major campaign until the last year of the war, and were miserably beaten in several... there is a reason for that.

I'm not at all sure that the suggestion put forward by the US Ambassador that Istanbul would fall just because the Entente fleet arrived off it's shores. If all they do is force the Straits, and then the Bosporus, all that happens is that they have to do it again going south, against even tougher defences at the north end of the Bosporus.

If the landings succeed, then they have to clear the entire peninsular, and the cross to the Asian side and clear that back to at least field artillery range. Then they have to go and take at least the land around Istanbul and along both side of the Bosporus, plus the northern defences. If they succeed at this they can run supplies through to the Russians, and they cut the Turkish armies in half. In this situation I would expect the Turks to leave holding forces only against the Russians on either side of the Black Sea and attempt to crush the salient through their midst. If that failed they pretty much would have to capitulate, but if the succeed, which is by no means of the question, it would be a major disaster for the Entente.
 

Larrikin

Banned
Not saying the could

That wouldn't cut the Ottoman armies in half; it would just deprive them of Thrace. If the defense of the capital looked hopeless, the army would just evacuate with the government to Anatolia and say "Bring it."

But it would dramatically increase the fighting power of Russia.

All these scenarios take for granted that Gallipoli only failed due to military mistakes on the part of the British and ignore that the Ottomans made none, and had a much superior army in 1915, in terms of training, experience, organization, leadership, and doctrine. I don't think it was actually possible for the Entente to win this. Despite overwhelming numbers and massive naval gunfire support, they failed.

The British failed to defeat the Ottomans in any major campaign until the last year of the war, and were miserably beaten in several... there is a reason for that.

In fact, I'm a firm believer in your position, even if the Gallipoli landings were successful I don't think they could have gone any further. To get any value out of them they would have had to slog all the way up the peninsular (good luck, you're going to need it on that ground) and successfully cross to and establish a perimeter on the Asian side.

As for militarily beaten in several, I can only think of 2 - Gallipoli and Townsend's little clusterf*ck. Sinai was a clear Brit win, and the later Mesopotamian campaign was a clear Indian win. Palestine after the capture Of Jerusalem in December 1917 got put on hold when Allenby lost troops back to France and Italy.
 
The British failed to defeat the Ottomans in any major campaign until the last year of the war, and were miserably beaten in several... there is a reason for that.

That the main allied theatre was in Western Europe, while the Ottomans could shift their forces to meet any attacks on their territory quite easily?

Any attack made by the allies on the Ottoman heartland was pretty much doomed to failure in my opinion. Just goes to show how short-sighted the Entente were not to bring the OE onside in 1914.
 
But it would dramatically increase the fighting power of Russia.

Not until the Ottomans had been driven out of artillery range of the Bosporous. Light artillery may not do much to a merchant ship, but the heavy stuff could as long as the Germans and Austro-Hungarians can transport shells across the Black Sea.
 
Not until the Ottomans had been driven out of artillery range of the Bosporous. Light artillery may not do much to a merchant ship, but the heavy stuff could as long as the Germans and Austro-Hungarians can transport shells across the Black Sea.

Which is not really likely. The Ottomans would have serious supply problems over a medium term prospective.
However, it's besides the point.
AFAIK, the Gallipoli landing (which was a stupid idea anyway) aimed to knock out the Ottomans from the war. The only way it might have worked is if a successful landing paves the way for a pro-Entente coup.
 
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