World War One (minus Woodrow Wilson)

Without Woodrow Wilson Germany will get worse treatment then in OTL since the right of self-determination won't be as respected as under his presence, and thuse Entante will divide Germany as it sees fit, so no plebiscites perhaps.

I was under the impression that Wilson cared for every self-determination but the Germans'. The absence of the 14th points, if anything, would help to make Austria-Hungary survive as a loose HRE-like confederation under the leadership of Emperor Karl, as a counter balance to Germany in Central Europe.
 
It was quite true that Wilson seemed toagree to look the other way when territory containing, German, Austrian or Hungarian peoples were grabbed by allied countries. If he had really stood up for self determination the borders in 1918 would not have been what they were. Itlay ended up with lands contains large number of Austrian Germans, Croatian and Slovenians.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
It was quite true that Wilson seemed toagree to look the other way when territory containing, German, Austrian or Hungarian peoples were grabbed by allied countries. If he had really stood up for self determination the borders in 1918 would not have been what they were. Itlay ended up with lands contains large number of Austrian Germans, Croatian and Slovenians.

Well, the losers always pays the price, and border areas between cultures are always multicultural. The areas where there lived Germans and Magyars that were lost, were also populated by Poles, Romanian and Slovaks etc.
 
Yes, but the point was that Wilson did not follow through with his stand for self determination. For some reason he had a hatred of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and Kaiser Karl. Of all of the leaders of WWI Karl was the most compasionate and caring.
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
Yes, but the point was that Wilson did not follow through with his stand for self determination. For some reason he had a hatred of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and Kaiser Karl. Of all of the leaders of WWI Karl was the most compasionate and caring.

Talking about Austria-Hungary, it was clear the Czechs wanted an own nation, the Croats and Slovenes were tired of the Empire, and Romania and Serbia wanted (and Had certain rights to) compensation. For Romania their role in deposing Bela Kun is as important.
 
Talking about Austria-Hungary, it was clear the Czechs wanted an own nation, the Croats and Slovenes were tired of the Empire, and Romania and Serbia wanted (and Had certain rights to) compensation. For Romania their role in deposing Bela Kun is as important.

so Austria-Hungary would in short, get dismatled?
It occurs to me the different ethnic fractions may try to Rebel and split off if the war keeps going on.
 
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