World War III in May 1946

[Hairog]

Maybe this will help put this in perspective for some of you...

In another forum (which is oft mentioned in this thread) someone posed a very good thread. Here is the link and here is the premise...

Assume you live in a Alt universe where WWII never happened. The nazis ever came to power & the wars of the 20th Century were limited to regional or local conflicts, few lasting more than a couple years.

Now imagine, some books from our universe, common histories of WWII, are imported and published nominally as alt hist fiction. Would you consider the events personalities, decisions and outcomes plausible, or mostly ASB crap if you read one of these?

What events ect... would be the most unbeleivable/implausible & why?

One answer in particular stands out by Mostlyharmless. It pretty much hits the nail on the head.

I am sorry but I have to say that I found the story presented in your extended alternate history utterly unbelievable for one basic reason and one which tells us worrying things about the author. The author basically believes that many, perhaps almost all the people in his story were very stupid.

Some other reviewers have focused on the figure of Adolf Hitler. However, this does not seem to destroy the story's credibility. One character who combines political genius with utter madness can be accepted. After all there has to be a logical point of divergence in such a story and whilst the growing influence of some minor quantum fluctuation might be more plausible, a brilliant and malevolent madman serves its purpose.

However, look at Hitler's opponents. We can imagine a huge and varied cast but what we see are simply variations of idiocy. The author apparently believes that many, perhaps almost all of the political leaders of Europe in his story were very very stupid.

For example, how plausible is it that the German Catholic Centre Party would vote for the Enabling Lawshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enabling_Act_of_1933? How stupid does the author think Ludwig Kaas actually was? The idea of turkeys voting for Christmas comes to mind.

We go out from Germany to the rest of Europe but the author's vision does not change. We have Poland signing and agreement with Hitler in 1934 and even taking land from Czechoslovakia in 1938. We have Britain and France voluntarily ending their alliance with Italy. We have Belgium deciding that her defence would be best ensured by ending her alliance with France despite the example of 1914 and finally we have an alliance between Germany and the USSR. All of the above after Hitler had even published his long term plans before taking office.

Then we have the French military response. We have the chaos in the aircraft industry and the failure to prepare for action if Germany attacked France's allies to the East. We have the amazing French incompetence in responding to the German attack in the West. For example, can we really believe that the mines laid at Sedan were laid and then taken up just before the German attack? Can we believe that an army could limit training to build fortifications but not actually finish building most of its defences? Stories of soldiers locking pillboxes and handing the keys to civilians, who had run away the pillboxes were needed, seem to suggest that the author believes that his readers are also fools.

At least the author is consistent. Even the Germans and the Japanese are portrayed as idiots over their signal security. For example look at https://www.nsa.gov/news-features/de...all-wicher.pdf .

Then look at the Pacific War. Don't worry about the big picture of Japan attacking the USA. Start small. Ask your self why the Japanese should have signed the Tripartite Pact in September 1940. Striking south in 1940 was logical. Trying to improve relations with the Anglo-Americans was also logical. However, who is going to raise potential enemies for absolutely no gain.

The Pacific War itself does reveal an interesting point with the Battle of Midway. We can actual follow how the author works from an initial version with an overly dramatic five minutes being replaced by a slightly less dramatic but, in the author's view, more believable story. However, again look at the logic. Nagumo might have been wise to launch his aircraft against the American carriers as soon as they were detected or he might have been wise to send every available Zero aloft and try to clear all explosives and fuel from his hangars. However, as usual the author expects a tested professional officer to act illogically.

Moving to America, we see an interesting example of idiocy in the 1940 GOP. After being out of power for eight years and utterly distrusting their Democrat opponent, who do they choose for a candidate. The author has them choosing a businessman who had never been elected to a major office and had even flirted with the Democrats. Is such a thing plausible?

We could also add in such ridiculous subplots such as the British manning their most valuable asset in the Pacific Singapore with green troops and one of the worst commanders ever to swing a crop or command an "impregnable fortress.

Or how about the silly scenario where the Americans are attacked in Pear Harbor. Yet a half a day after the surprise attack the US Far East Air force is caught on the ground. It is destroyed in 45 minutes despite advanced warning and radar detecting the incoming enemy. The author expects us to swallow the idea that our armed forces would be so incompetent.

How about the chapter where the writer would have us believe that the British capture or eliminate every single German spy in the British Isles and a then use double agents to completely fool the seemingly idiotic "Super Race". What kind of fools does he think we are to even consider such drivel and handwaven. He obviously needed this silly subplot to carry his story.

Then he gives the Nazis a few super weapons like rockets and jet planes but then has them employ them so incompetently that they are pissed away. Who could believe such a turn to ASB and such obvious inaccuracies?

How about that artificial, tow-able harbor?

Then of course we have this tiny island nation with virtually no natural resources conquering huge swaths of the earth and enslaving millions of people while wearing ridiculous red woolen uniforms in over 100 degree heat. He has this one nation invent so many war winning weapons and producing so many incredible leaders that is is just ludicrous.

Or how about the tall tale of the "Most beautiful women in the world" inventing a guidance system and people actually taking her seriously and then he names her Hedy Lamarr. LOL LOL LOL!

The author had to use all these inane plot lines because the narrative demands that the Allies be an unstoppable juggernaut, then the handwaving is so bad that it's like the Nazis (don't even get me started on these Nazi guys) didn't actually learn from history and science but just sort of... forgot.

He has to rely on an old trope of the US and Britain breaking a super secret code because they are handed a super secret decoding ring by a conquered people called Poles for god's sake?

I'm sorry but this whole "World War Two" story line belongs in ASB big time. There are just too many implausible things happening. The author really needs to turn the British and United States hyper-competence and luck down from infinity to only eight or nine. Hell here are a few suggestions...
1. get rid of that code breaking trope.
2. Tanks that can swim
3. Battle of Britain RAF Smash
4. Battle of Midway US Smash
5. The seemingly endless Allied defeats early in the story
6. France being defeated in weeks...come on!
7. Get rid of this Eisenhower genius who comes across as a computer player with cheat codes.
8. This Stalin character who kills off all of his best leaders just before the war begins. How convenient.
9. Can that Hitler guy. He is such a cartoon of a villain.

I half expected the appearance of an "atomic bomb" that could destroy a whole city by itself.

 

[Derek Pullem]

I think you lost the quote tags half way through - but to make some observations on the last points

1. Code breaking has been a British specialty since the Zimmerman telegram and Room 40
2. Tanks that can swim are hardly revolutionary - amphibious vehicles of various kids have been designed since the start of the motor car (and indeed before - the logging industry used a steam powered boat / crawler as an amphibious vehicle)
3. Battle of Britain was won by logistics
4. Midway was lost by lack of radar and poor damage control on Japanese side
5. The Allies were still in the process of rearming - note that Britain was beating the Italians in 1940
6. France was effectively beaten in 6 weeks in the Franco-Prussian war (19 July - 2 September when Napoleon III surrendered)
7. Eisenhower was no genius - he wielded overwhelming force to defeat a stubborn but inferior enemy. Where's the flash of genius?
8. Stalin was a product of the communist system. Purges of opponents started immediately after they came to power. I agree a dead general is impossible to recall but a purged and disgraced general is pretty hard to rehabilitate aswell.
9. Hitler was also a product of the system - comparisons with Stalin are always made but Mao, the Korean Kims, Saddam and Qaddafi show similar "cartoon" like images.
10. The atom bomb was predicted as early as 1914 by HG Wells and no lesser person than Churchill was speculating in 1924 of miniature bombs capable of flattening towns.

The real crux of the proble with the story is this though

At least the author is consistent. Even the Germans and the Japanese are portrayed as idiots

Your story does not give the protagonists an even share of idiocy.

 

[Catsmate]

I think you lost the quote tags half way through - but to make some observations on the last points

1. Code breaking has been a British specialty since the Zimmerman telegram and Room 40.
<snip>

And indeed much earlier, back to people like Dr Edward Willes (Secret Decipherer to the King) and William Blencowe, back in the days of the Secret Office and Secret Department.

 

[Lost Freeway]

-snip-

We might as well be yelling at a wall for all the good we're doing.

 

[hipper]

I think you lost the quote tags half way through - but to make some observations on the last points

1. Code breaking has been a British specialty since the Zimmerman telegram and Room 40
2. Tanks that can swim are hardly revolutionary - amphibious vehicles of various kids have been designed since the start of the motor car (and indeed before - the logging industry used a steam powered boat / crawler as an amphibious vehicle)
3. Battle of Britain was won by logistics
4. Midway was lost by lack of radar and poor damage control on Japanese side
5. The Allies were still in the process of rearming - note that Britain was beating the Italians in 1940
6. France was effectively beaten in 6 weeks in the Franco-Prussian war (19 July - 2 September when Napoleon III surrendered)
7. Eisenhower was no genius - he wielded overwhelming force to defeat a stubborn but inferior enemy. Where's the flash of genius?
8. Stalin was a product of the communist system. Purges of opponents started immediately after they came to power. I agree a dead general is impossible to recall but a purged and disgraced general is pretty hard to rehabilitate aswell.
9. Hitler was also a product of the system - comparisons with Stalin are always made but Mao, the Korean Kims, Saddam and Qaddafi show similar "cartoon" like images.
10. The atom bomb was predicted as early as 1914 by HG Wells and no lesser person than Churchill was speculating in 1924 of miniature bombs capable of flattening towns.

The real crux of the proble with the story is this though



Your story does not give the protagonists an even share of idiocy.

I take the point about logistics winning the Battle of Britain but the superior effocency of radar directed fighters over fighters who are guided by eye had a lot to do with things. Put simply a sortie by an RAF fighter had a higher chance of seeing a target than a sortie by a Luftwaffe fighter.

I like the even share of idiocy line.

Cheers Hipper.

 

[Hairog]

I might as well be talking to a couple of door knobs.

So Ultra and solving enigma was inevitable? and the recruitment of such unlikely candidates as Herivel was par for the course? The fact that Hans-Thilo Schmidt needing money at just the right time is taken for granted and perfectly normal and not at all handwaven? The Polish genius Rejewski just took a wild ass guess which broke open the whole thing is no problem? When asked by Dilly Knox Rejewski admitted that he'd guessed correctly that it was in alphabetical order. Knox replied: "Oh, God, we never thought of that! It's too obvious! Why didn't we think of that?!"

FOR YEARS THEY NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT! But of course to you two its not an obvious plot twist designed to make sure the Allies win.

How about capturing an intact submarine or two with the Enigma machines inside. One of them on its first voyage and only slightly damaged with a seasick crew and an idiot for a Captain. No problem with that I assume.

As to Hitler...So a mass murders who tells people he's going to be a mass murder, gets the very people he's going to murder to vote for him then proceeds to bluff his way to major victories and then starts murdering who he said he was going to murder.

How about a number of the enemies most top secrets are discovered by eaves dropping on prisoners conversation.

I could go on for days with this stuff.

All this doesn't seem ridiculous to you? That iF someone put all this together in a fictitious story you would have no problem with it's plausibility?!?!?

Either you are very naive or just being contrary. You're bias for all things British and American are astounding.

What do you think of the all time best selling Alternative History novel "Man in the HIgh Castle" by A.B. Dick? Is that story plausible in your estimation?

 

[Derek Pullem]

I might as well be talking to a couple of door knobs.

So Ultra and solving enigma was inevitable? and the recruitment of such unlikely candidates as Herivel was par for the course? The fact that Hans-Thilo Schmidt needing money at just the right time is taken for granted and perfectly normal and not at all handwaven? The Polish genius Rejewski just took a wild ass guess which broke open the whole thing is no problem? When asked by Dilly Knox Rejewski admitted that he'd guessed correctly that it was in alphabetical order. Knox replied: "Oh, God, we never thought of that! It's too obvious! Why didn't we think of that?!"

FOR YEARS THEY NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT! But of course to you two its not an obvious plot twist designed to make sure the Allies win.

How about capturing an intact submarine or two with the Enigma machines inside. One of them on its first voyage and only slightly damaged with a seasick crew and an idiot for a Captain. No problem with that I assume.

As to Hitler...So a mass murders who tells people he's going to be a mass murder, gets the very people he's going to murder to vote for him then proceeds to bluff his way to major victories and then starts murdering who he said he was going to murder.

How about a number of the enemies most top secrets are discovered by eaves dropping on prisoners conversation.

I could go on for days with this stuff.

All this doesn't seem ridiculous to you? That iF someone put all this together in a fictitious story you would have no problem with it's plausibility?!?!?

Either you are very naive or just being contrary. You're bias for all things British and American are astounding.

What do you think of the all time best selling Alternative History novel "Man in the HIgh Castle" by A.B. Dick? Is that story plausible in your estimation?

The recruitment of "unlikely" candidates was part of the design of the operation at Bletchley Park. Herivel wasn't unlikely though - a mathematical prodigy studying at Cambridge under one of the founders of the UK Government Codes and Ciphers section (Welchman)

The point about Germans and Allies making mistakes just reinforces my point about "sharing the idiocy" - the Russian behemoth in your stories has yet top put a foot wrong whilst the Allies plumb new depth of lead based beverage drinking.

Your accusations of bias ring hollow when your storyline loads advantage after advantage on to the Russians - is this some kind of weird payback for your perception of "pro-American and British bias" in the various alternate history communities.

As for the "Man in the High Castle" by Philip K Dick (A.B. ????) - it's a good novel. Emphasis on novel. It doesn't really pretend to be plausible history, it is more concerned with the action of people within the setting. It won a Science Fiction award when published and that is always where I regarded it. After all - if you are allowing any deviation from present then many many Science Fiction novels are "alternate history". How many copies has Turtledove sold in his World War series?

I suspect also that Fatherland by Robert Harris (3 million copies) may have sold more than "The Man in the High Castle" by the way, just as one example. But if you have any facts to contradict my guess please share.

Bottom line is that you are writing a novel. That is what you a clearly aspiring to. So - why not the Writer's Forum?

 

[Derek Pullem]

As soon as you show me where it says "a minority of their losses were to the Soviets".

You have my answer and I got yours.

OK enough is enough. Should we continue the story or not?

As I said before I'm only doing this because I felt I owed something to those of you who have helped me. If you want me to stop I will.

One person one vote. In two weeks I'll count the votes and majority rules.

Yes - means continue

No - I stop

See you in two weeks.

It's two weeks.

I count 3 "yes but move it to writer's forum", one "yes" and zero "no"

Not a massive response but clearly no one wants you to stop.

Up to you if you listen to your public.

 

[Catsmate]

So Ultra and solving enigma was inevitable?

Well pretty much. There were a lot of people working at breaking the system and a lot of resources used.
Then there was carelessness and user error.

What do you think of the all time best selling Alternative History novel "Man in the HIgh Castle" by A.B. Dick? Is that story plausible in your estimation?

It's "Philip K[indred] Dick" and no, it's not at all plausible.

 

[Hairog]

The point about Germans and Allies making mistakes just reinforces my point about "sharing the idiocy" - the Russian behemoth in your stories has yet top put a foot wrong whilst the Allies plumb new depth of lead based beverage drinking.

NATO has the Soviets right were they want them. I've tried to hint at what is coming. Apparently your predisposition to all things British and American have blinded you and your misunderstanding of history have tainted your judgement.

Do you recall Operation Louisville Slugger? When they duked it out with De Gaulle in the Maginot instead of by-passing him thus wasting weeks? Weeks that they needed to get to Spain and being the firstest with the mostest. It was a major blunder. The Soviets are under the impression that the Americans are not gearing up for war and are not meeting their recruitment goals. This was very damaging disinformation. They lost track of virtually all of the B-29s and a good portion of the B-17s and B-24s and are unaware of the gathering of amphibious assets from the aborted invasion of Japan. They have stripped the Transcaucasian Front of fighters to use on their foray over Britain. Their oil fields near the Black Sea were virtually unguarded. Beria is covering up the fact that they have lost all of their intelligence assets in the mideast and Turkey. Crenshaw is on the verge of remembering a vital clue regarding the guidance system of the X-4 and the Wasserfall. British Mosquitos had a number of successful raids. The US clandestinely sets up major air operations in Egypt and Turkey right under the noses of the Soviets. Four atomic bombs are dropped on 70% of the Soviet oil producing facilities!?!?! The Soviets have at the most 6 months of oil remaining for normal operations. The Soviets have stopped their offensive operations against Britain and the Pyrenees Line. They have been goaded into invading Turkey and the Mideast. They are way out of their comfort zone and getting further and further away from the motherland which is the source of their incredible ability to met out and take punishment.

A few of you gentlemen are most definitely blinded by your bias and world view otherwise you could see just how much deep s**t the Soviets are in. Since the 19 Century Russia has never been beaten when it has traded territory for time. In their haste for conquest they have left a number of backdoors wide open. They have been played like one of Bagramian's trout.

Question: without nukes and the ability to bomb a helpless populace in fire storms, how would you go about defeating the Reds after they had run amok in Western Europe in 1946-47? Frontal assault like Napoleon and Hitler.

Your accusations of bias ring hollow when your storyline loads advantage after advantage on to the Russians - is this some kind of weird payback for your perception of "pro-American and British bias" in the various alternate history communities.

And your suggestions constantly load advantage after advantage on to the British and to some extent the US. So I don't believe they do ring hollow. I think they are dead on.

Just a few more questions if I may

Are you aware and have you read about the Venona Project?

Hayden Peake, curator of the Central Intelligence Agency’s Historical Intelligence Collection has stated, "No modern government was more thoroughly penetrated."

Are you cognizant of the significance of The M Room and its trove of intelligence?

How about the Oslo Papers?

 

[Derek Pullem]

How about your two week review - have you decided yet?

I don't actually care about who wins or loses in your story . The only reason I'm commenting at all is the absence of logic and credibility in it. Which is not a problem if you want to write the next "The Man in the High Castle". But is if your goals are to write something more akin to "The Third World War" by General Hackett.

I'm tired of you continually moving the goalposts (and lack of sources for your assertions). What do the the Verona project, the Oslo papers and /or the M room have to do with anything? All they demonstrate is the effectiveness of the Allied intelligence services - you know, the ones you treat as nincompoops. Intelligence is the gathering of diverse sources and delivering a coherent picture of the enemy's intentions.

So make your call about the story here and move on. I certainly will.

 

[Hairog]

I'm tired of you continually moving the goalposts (and lack of sources for your assertions).

And I'm way past tired of your inability to not only know where the goal post are, but even what their purpose is.

What do the the Verona project, the Oslo papers and /or the M room have to do with anything? All they demonstrate is the effectiveness of the Allied intelligence services - you know, the ones you treat as nincompoops. Intelligence is the gathering of diverse sources and delivering a coherent picture of the enemy's intentions.

I thought these three might demonstrate your obvious bias and how it taints your judgement.

Venona Project was not that significant of an intelligence coup. The information was very old by the time that they were decoded. The Soviets had long ago changed their codes and the use of the single pad system. They had known for years that we had the ability to read their code and took appropriate measures. The real incredible story is the breath and depth that the US and British governments were infiltrated.

Once discovered it was so astonishing, potentially dangerous and embarrassing that both governments hid the Venona Project for decades from their respective public and even tried to hide if from President Truman. Your ridged thinking led you right past the true astounding significance of the project. I even tried to give you a hint.

Hayden Peake, curator of the Central Intelligence Agency’s Historical Intelligence Collection has stated, "No modern government was more thoroughly penetrated."

The Oslo Papers were a road map to the Nazi weapons development for the foreseeable future and gave the Allies the knowledge of what to look for, where to look for it and how to defeat it. It was a blue print for how to negate dozens of secret weapons. Imagine if the Germans knew about the significance of the Mulberry Harbors, the true nature of the giant antennas of the Home Chain System, the proximity fuse, that we had broken their code and a nuclear bomb was possible without 600 liters of heavy water, 1 metric ton of graphite and 2 tons U235. The Oslo papers save our bacon in many ways but the most significant is the resources we saved by knowing what exactly to look for.

Just like the Oslo Papers the M Room gave us insights into a whole host of secrets we had no idea existed. Hundreds of clues to dozens of Germany's best kept secrets were not ferreted out by superior British intelligence or scientific brilliance but by eves dropping. Brilliant in its own right but hardly the stuff of faux legends created by the Allied propaganda machine.

 

[Aber]

They lost track of virtually all of the B-29s and a good portion of the B-17s and B-24s and are unaware of the gathering of amphibious assets from the aborted invasion of Japan. .. The US clandestinely sets up major air operations in Egypt and Turkey right under the noses of the Soviets.

And this is the same Soviet intelligence operation that was producing real time intelligence on strategic bombing targets earlier in the timeline, which is now unable to notice a huge deployment of US air forces into neutral countries with longstanding Communist parties.

It seems that plausibility is over-ruled by authorial fiat to produce the storyline that you want.

NATO has the Soviets right were they want them.

Given that NATO was not formed until 1948, and many western countries are currently occupied it would seem more likely that they will use the mechanisms of the United Nations (after arranging for Gromyko to be conveniently absent).

The Oslo Papers were a road map to the Nazi weapons development for the foreseeable future and gave the Allies the knowledge of what to look for, where to look for it and how to defeat it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oslo_Report

It certainly gave some information, but the information given in 1939 in a 7 page letter didn't cover the foreseeable future, it didn't include everything, and some of the information was incorrect.

 

[Derek Pullem]

And I'm way past tired of your inability to not only know where the goal post are, but even what their purpose is.



I thought these three might demonstrate your obvious bias and how it taints your judgement.

Venona Project was not that significant of an intelligence coup. The information was very old by the time that they were decoded. The Soviets had long ago changed their codes and the use of the single pad system. They had known for years that we had the ability to read their code and took appropriate measures. The real incredible story is the breath and depth that the US and British governments were infiltrated.

Once discovered it was so astonishing, potentially dangerous and embarrassing that both governments hid the Venona Project for decades from their respective public and even tried to hide if from President Truman. Your ridged thinking led you right past the true astounding significance of the project. I even tried to give you a hint.



The Oslo Papers were a road map to the Nazi weapons development for the foreseeable future and gave the Allies the knowledge of what to look for, where to look for it and how to defeat it. It was a blue print for how to negate dozens of secret weapons. Imagine if the Germans knew about the significance of the Mulberry Harbors, the true nature of the giant antennas of the Home Chain System, the proximity fuse, that we had broken their code and a nuclear bomb was possible without 600 liters of heavy water, 1 metric ton of graphite and 2 tons U235. The Oslo papers save our bacon in many ways but the most significant is the resources we saved by knowing what exactly to look for.

Just like the Oslo Papers the M Room gave us insights into a whole host of secrets we had no idea existed. Hundreds of clues to dozens of Germany's best kept secrets were not ferreted out by superior British intelligence or scientific brilliance but by eves dropping. Brilliant in its own right but hardly the stuff of faux legends created by the Allied propaganda machine.

Honestly - I just don't understand what you even want to achieve with your story.

And since you have just repeated your behavior from other forums where your aggressive dismissal of all other opinions lost you your audience I guess as one of the four persons who expressed an interest in your story continuing (albeit in the Writers Forum) you just lost 25% of your readership here.

Good Luck.

 

[Eternity]

FFS.

[Rant mode]

I am reading this and it is like a schoolyard squabble. He said that, he said this.

Seriously, ENOUGH ALREADY. Are we mature adults or immature children?

Yes, Hairog's plot has some holes and Russia is suddenly very very cleaver (One wonders why the POD is not earlier with this Sierge guy as they would have done much better in WWII), but for all the story's failings I enjoy it, and this bickering detracts from that.

I have said it before and will no doubt have to say it again - If you don't like the story, don't read it. If you do like it, then read it, but why oh why does everybody have to go through the same points time and time again???

You raise them, Hairog replies and possibly deals with it. We move on to the next point. Please no more of the raise a point, Hairog replies, whoever it was raises the same point again, Hairog replies again and so on. Round and round we go like a f'ing schoolyard squabble. Then the following week when things die down, the SAME FRAGGING POINT is raised again.

I say let Hairog write the story as he wishes and if the plot / story offends some people, then why are you reading it? If you go to the library and take a book out and find you don't enjoy it, you stop reading and return it don't you? ok you can't exactly return a thread to the library, but you can un-watch it and stop reading.

[/Rant Mode]

That's my 2 cents anyway. Hairog, if you want to avoid this bickering you have the following options that I can see.

1) Ignore the bickering and write the story, posting where you have been.
2) Move to the writer's forum.
3) Move to a dedicated website and have a mailing list sorta thing to let people know of updates.

Honestly, you will get people nit-picking with you. I have somebody upset because I interchange England and United Kingdom in my TL. I'm English and somebody says that to me! Go figure! lol Point is, you will never be able to please everybody and some people will ALWAYS find fault and some people will ALWAYS try to wind you up.

I read somewhere that out of everybody you will ever meet in life, you can break them down into 4 groups:
a) 20% will LOVE you no matter what you do. You can be the Grim Reaper, Satan or some other incredibly sadistic and evil person and they will still love you.
b) 30% will inherently like you, but can be swayed either way by what you say and do.
c) 30% will inherently dislike you, but can be swayed either way by what you say and do.
d) 20% will HATE you no matter what you do. You can be Jesus, Mother Theresa or some other perfect person who has never done anything to offend them or done wrong, but they'll still hate you.

To me it looks like most people who nitpick on your TL fall solidly into the (d) category. You can't sway them to your view, so why try I ask? Anyway, your call on that.

Your call on the TL as well mate, but I for one want you to continue. Move it to the writer's forum & ping me a link please.

Cheers.

 

[CT23]

It'd probably work best for you if you moved it to the Writer's Forum.

 

[JFoxx]

Just create a story only thread. This back and forth is just infuriating as a reader.

 

[CT23]

I want to make sure I understand the distinctions between forums since I haven't posted in the Writer's Forum that much. In that forum...a poster would only post story segments of his/her TL and there would be no comments from other posters...is that correct?

 

[omnimercurial]

I've not been in the After 1900 Subforum in a while but I DO want to see this Story continued.

There has already been Errors and Successes by both the West and East so calls of Bias are rather pathetic.

The only criticism to have merit I am aware of is that there are too few fleshed out recurring Characters.

There was even a childish attempt by someone to Slam Hairog's Story on Spacebattles dot com which only focused on very tailored Quotes and excluded parts which showed the true story.

I pointed out that reading the whole thing would be a better point from which to form an opinion and avoid Confirmation Bias.

I enjoy the story.

I appreciate Hairog's efforts.

 

[Lost Freeway]

There has already been Errors and Successes by both the West and East so calls of Bias are rather pathetic.

Care naming specific examples?