World War II without German Rocket program

As the tag line says. Suppose Werner Von Braun and his team are not given any more support after the A3 rocket in 1937 proves somewhat successful, or *very* limited support such that the A4/V2 never makes it to production or even a prototype phase. How does Germany fare in the war without the very expensive and resource-consuming rocket program? What are the results for the post-war world?
 
Nazi Germany Lasts Another Week

Nazi Germany lasts another week. The Reich was THAT inefficient that the resources used in the V-2 wouldn't have mattered so much. If you include the V-1, you (may) butterfly away Fortitude South, but that was a sideshow.

After the war, the US and USSR rocket programs don't get the kickstart they enjoyed. but -- since the US had Goddard and the USSR had Konstantin Tsiolkovsky, they would have (probably) proceeded at the slow (slow)pace.

So, maybe one side gets to the Moon in 1980 instead of 1969. Otherwise, much the same on the propaganda front.

On the ICBM front, however, big flying wings flapping. The Strategic Bomber program along with Interception, gets most of the attention, and without rockets, MAD never becomes a fear of the war planners.

The "Knockout Punch" is dismissed as a possibility, and both sides concentrate on land and sea forces, with attention to withstanding an atomic defense.
 
Without pet German rocket scientists, the US Navy would take forever to develop submarine-launched intercontinental ballistic missiles. Without ICBMs there would be far less funding to develop nuclear-powered submarines.

The USAF's Strategic Air Command would retain its prestige and power far later in the Cold War.
 
The British Army captures the german rocket team on the Baltic coast in April 1945. By 1955 Great Britain has the worlds first ICBM:eek: RULE BRITANIA:D
 
Nazi Germany lasts another week. The Reich was THAT inefficient that the resources used in the V-2 wouldn't have mattered so much. If you include the V-1, you (may) butterfly away Fortitude South, but that was a sideshow.

Perhaps, but it might have resulted in a lot more allied dead if the resources went towards something practical. But you're right, the resources likely would have went toward super-weapons of some sorts, such as u-boats. I don't think the Germans had a good enough u-boat in the works that it would have made a difference.

So, maybe one side gets to the Moon in 1980 instead of 1969. Otherwise, much the same on the propaganda front.

USSR would be out of it at that point for financial reasons.

On the ICBM front, however, big flying wings flapping. The Strategic Bomber program along with Interception, gets most of the attention, and without rockets, MAD never becomes a fear of the war planners.

MAD existed before ICBMs were a major threat. The threat of a bunch of bombers blowing you into the stoneage was the main threat until the late 1960s.
 
Without pet German rocket scientists, the US Navy would take forever to develop submarine-launched intercontinental ballistic missiles. Without ICBMs there would be far less funding to develop nuclear-powered submarines.

It was 1951 that Congress authorized USS Nautilus, when Atlas was still a drawing board project.

And the USN wasn't nuts enough to use liquid fuel propellants for SLBM, but solids from the start, and that propellant had its roots in WWII JATO bottles.

The Navy was very jealous of SAC's nuclear role, and pushed hard to muscle in, from the takeoff but not land on a carrier Neptunes, to toss bombing Skyraiders.

The first Boomer was one of those early nuclear boats that was cut after the Sail, and had a plug filled with launch tubes spliced in

Paperclip Nazis had about zero influence in what the USN planned
 
Nazi Germany lasts another week. The Reich was THAT inefficient that the resources used in the V-2 wouldn't have mattered so much. If you include the V-1, you (may) butterfly away Fortitude South, but that was a sideshow.

much of German crops was set aside for alcohol production, and the V-2 program was similar in scope to the US B-29 program, that was actually larger than the Manhattan Project.

yeah, there would be butterflies, like inplace of working on turbopumps, they work on turbochargers
 
Does it maybe do anything in regards to Market Garden? I thought I remember reading that part of the reason it was approved was to overrun V2 launch sites.
 
Major changes by e.g. 1957

Very few changes in WWII.
Germans do a bit better, maybe last as much as a month longer if they actually used those resources for something useful, some individual operations look a bit different. Overall, little change.
 
So, maybe one side gets to the Moon in 1980 instead of 1969. Otherwise, much the same on the propaganda front.
Butterflies could prevent any Moon landing. Suppose the USA ends up ahead of the USSR in the early space race and the POTUS doesn't feel he needs to beat the Soviets.
No Apollo program, and the USSR could then skip any attempt to a manned Moon landing. Later on the USSR economy stagnates, so the space race, if it ever started, slows down.
Without that incentive, a Moon landing becomes something like a cheaper and simpler version of OTL Nasa's plans for a manned Mars landing: could be done, the technology will eventually be there, but no funds are ever given to it.
 
No Apollo program, and the USSR could then skip any attempt to a manned Moon landing. Later on the USSR economy stagnates, so the space race, if it ever started, slows down.

I don't think they ever could have made the N-1 reliable enough to achieve lunar orbit
 
Would the resources saved allow Germany to focus more on jet engines and other aeronautics, and if so does this change the quality, development, or availability of jet engines to the Axis?
 
Would the resources saved allow Germany to focus more on jet engines and other aeronautics, and if so does this change the quality, development, or availability of jet engines to the Axis?

I'm not sure. Wasn't one of the main problems the lack of specific materials because they weren't mined in Germany or something along those lines?
 

Deleted member 1487

I'm not sure. Wasn't one of the main problems the lack of specific materials because they weren't mined in Germany or something along those lines?
Yes, but they had stocks that they ended up using to make thousands of missiles with. I think they had enough nickel, but it was the other metals in the alloy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Jumo_004#Technical_description_and_testing
The initial 004A engines built to power the Me 262 prototypes had been built without restrictions on materials, and they used scarce raw materials such as nickel, cobalt, and molybdenum in quantities which were unacceptable in production.
Molybdenum was the biggest issue because they had only one mine that made it in Norway that was bombed during the war by the British and shut down.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knaben
The mine operations were the target for allied bombing twice in 1943. The first attack took place on 3 March, with 10 British de Havilland Mosquito strike fighters of No. 139 Squadron RAF participating. The second attack was on 16 November, when 130 American B-17 bombers from the Eighth Air Force (in its mission number 131) attacked the Knaben molybdenum mines in a raid against Norway.[1][2]
Tungsten was too heavy for the alloy IIRC; they had an undiscovered deposit of that in Austria that didn't get discovered until the 1950s.
 
When the Soviet made their first jet engines, they were copies of the german designs with better materials.

But still were not very good.

Lucky they got some Derwents and Nenes from the UK to copy instead.

The only German design that had legs turned into the turbo prop for the Bear, so long legs indeed
 
Von Braun goes to the US and helps Goddard gain enough funding to progress their work.

Goddard only barely lives long enough to see a captured V-2 and he was very sick at the time. The prospect of Goddard living long enough to meet with Von Braun, is cool, but very doubtful.
 
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