World War 3

What are your visions about WW3 Not asking "could" it happen, but how WOULD it happen in your alternative history fiction?


The classic is ofcourse with the US&USSR during the original Cold War;) I have studied alot of the Cold War, and there maybe sone scenarios i think would be possible.


1:Korean war. The US has clear and overwhelming firepower! But will the US bother risking a war with China simply to nuke North-Korea? Most likely not


2:Cuban missile crisis. A change here, but it's still relatively small, considering both sides want a compromise, and the Soviet Union still have the most to lose in a conflict.


2:Vietnam. In this fiction the Watergate scandals never happens. The reporters never get there hands on the sensitive information. Nixon stayes in power, despite being unpopular. The Paris peace accord is not much of a real peace, and simply fuels MORE violence! Nixons managed to squeeze congressional authorisation to contiunue the war and more bombings. Atleast 500 000 North-Vietnamese civilians get killed in just 12 days.


China hints it might now enter the war. The US nuclear bombers are put on full alert, and naval manuevers are carried out on Chinas coast. Chinese "advisers" start to flow to North-Vietnam. Nixon tries to get a deal with Breznev to go to war against China without Soviet interference. Breznev however refuses to give Nixon ok. He sufferes from severe stress, and is forced to step down. Hes Vise President comes in hes place, but the real power is now being held by the top ranking generals. They try to make a deal to keep China out of the war, and in return stop the bombings. Already a million North-Vietnamese have already died. A confortation finally breaks between Chinese and American soldiers. A full scale bombing campaig is now launched against China, while US bases against Japan are also under attack. Marshall law is carried out in America. Desperate evacuation plans are carried out in Vietnam...


Most of China is destroyed in massive bombing and a nuclear holocaust. Soviet forces stage a special military exersize in Europe. Massive anti-American protests are carried out across the globe. The USSR however in secret is satisfied with the fact, that both China and Japan are finally out of the "big game" wich now exlusively for white people. Most US bases in Asia are destoryed, but the Soviet Union does not come to Chinas aid. Massive Anti-American protests are carried out in Europe. Anarchy speards as American military bases are attacked. The CIA tries to launch counter protests in Soviet occupied countries. The Soviet Union warns the west on fueling tensions and sends thousands of more tanks to Eastern-Europe.


At the end of the day no war actually breaks out between the west and Soviet Union, but several member states now withdraw from Naton, wich literally turns into an Anglo-Saxon organisation. France and Germany found a "European forum" where the Russians are also invited as obersvers. The US and Britain are isloted, and American remains indefinitely in Marshall law. The US economy does not recover, and Europeans attempt to deal with the Soviet Union on there own, abandoning USA.


3:This would be a war caused by the Soviet occupation of Poland during the solidarity movement. Very unlikely, since the Soviets never came there. Assuming they did, the west would have just put them on tighter trade sanctions. Dont really see war over this:rolleyes:



4:A war with China 10-years from now. The war starts, when a Chinas ship colides with it's American counterpart in the South-China sea. US navy starts shooting Chinese ships in retaliation. Several thousands of sailors form both sides are eventually killed, and China attacks US carriers.


Basicly it's an all out nuclear war, where eventually Russia also joins in. The war is exlusively caused by US "Neocons" are and a powerfull "Shadow council" that works behind the scenes. There secret bases in deep in Latin-America, where they controll the economies of Agentina and Brazill, so they have no problem with WW3 China is almost totally ahnialated. The US collapses, Russia is destroyed. The "Shadow council" then uses there puppets in Latin-America to form a "world government" there, and sents troops to Asia and America to try to controll there reosources. It's a multicultural utopian run by big coporations. Nation states have been literally WHIPED OUT! Basicly a coporate facist world government mostly government from Latin-America, tough they also have links to India and controll the European Union. Nuclear attacks are launched against countries like Iran who try to fight them off. They controll the world through biolocial warfare, starvation(they delibaretly ruin global crops to sell more biocrops wich they have patents to)They provoke wars, destroy crops, spread bioloical weapons delibrately to test them on civilians...you know, being basic coporace facists, a bit like we have today:rolleyes: ALL those who oppose them are hunted down and destroyed. The World will thank the American people for being stupid enough to let there government run them into a world war caused delibrately by the "Shadow Council"


Ok a little cornie back there, but this is basicly how i would envision it. Anyone else got any ideas:confused:



P.S:The other altarnative history timeline i'd be interested in, is what if America had not had the bomb ready against Japan in 1945, but instead the first bomb would have been ready only by 1946. The first Hydrogem bombs were ready only by the mid 1950's so i actually consider this a possible scenario
 
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China goes all out in the Sino-Vietnamese War and like the Winter War slowly manages to push the Vietnamese back in Phyrric victories however the Soviets begin to pressure the Chinese to make peace and begin moving more troops to the Far East.

As tensions escalate sporadic border conflicts begin on the Sino-Soviet border with the Soviets performing violent reconaissance missions.

As the Chinese eventually approach Hanoi the Soviets begin to threaten the Chinese with war if they don't move out.As the Chinese surround Hanoi the Soviets launch an all out invasion of Manchuria.The invasion is victorious like August Storm and with China seemingly about to collapse India also takes the oppurtunity to get revenge.The Chinese know they are now fighting a 3-front war and face Soviet Nuclear and Conventional superiority and eventually surrender agreeing to pull out of Vietnam as well as losing several territories to the Soviets and India.

btw Could I maybe steal your Vietnam idea for a TL its really good.
 
Vietnam was probobly just 1 of the scenarios i came up with.


It actually all comes down to Watergate, wich never(in this fiction)really happened. Watergate game the Americans the excuse to xit the war(maybe why it actually DID happen;)) that they were already losing. Now lets assume that the security guards were a bit more carefull, and those reporters never got there hands on the tapes. A bit like there were attempts to assasinate Hitler, but they failed:rolleyes:


Congress can still decide NOT to authorise furder bomgings. The Paris Peace accord doesent really promise any "peace" since it doesent ven recodnize the border between the North and the South, or demand ANY KIND of withdraw of North-Vietnamese forces and Guerillas from the South.


Nixon is really too weak at this point to do anything, as he is now VERY unpopular, Watergate or not, partly do to Bombing of Cambocia and Laos, wich was techicly illegal.


But lets say, that there are "higher powers" at work, who wich for the war to continue. I dont really think the Soviet Union was "backstab" the Chinese. On the contrary;a war with China and America would be IDEAL to them, and they have already at this point THOUSANDS of nuclear tipped MIRV warheads that can reach US soil. They can pretty much rest assure that America will not try to drag them into the war:rolleyes:



Heavy pressure is put on congress to continue bomging operations in Vietnam. Many will be accused of communism. Congress is threatend with Marshall law and military dictatorship, so they dont interfear with the Presidents desicion. The war continues the escalate, and the death toll rises. China and the USSR refuse to stop suplying North-Vietnam with more weapons.


At this point it ultimately comes down to this;is Vietnam worth a nuclear war? Any sane person would say NO! Another alternative war scenario would probobly be the Soviet invasion of Poland. The general US population wants to exit the war, but the military leadership sees defeat unbarable, and starts bomging Southern China in an attempt to cut North-Vietnamese suply lines. Threats are exchange between the US and China. Millions of Chinese troops starts flooding north of the border to Vietnam. US intensifies bombing campaigns.


A coneventional war breaks up. China suffers heavy casualties do to US bombings, and threatans to attack US bases in Asia with nuclear weapons, if the bombing dont stop. At this point the US makes a first strike move against Chinese nuclear facilities. Chinese start missile attack on US bases in Japan, Korea, Vietnam and Taiwan.


I dont think the war will really escalate to the Soviet Union. USSR has the ability to end civilization as we know it. I doubt the US or Nato has the guts to start fucking with them. Soviet Union doesent really need to enter the war, but watches it on the sidelines. At the end of the day China suffers heavy damage, and all US bases in Asia are lost. Major riots break up in America and it's Nato allies. Marshall law is declared and military dictatorship rises to power, determined to crush "communist supported anarcists"


This how i would envision it. Dont believe the Soviets would enter the war in any way. They were not impressed by Nixons "nuclear scare" so i doubt America could really blackmail them in any way.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB81


Later the Soviet Union uses it's tanks against the Polish solidarity movement. Tired from it's war with China the west is willing to except Eastern-Europe as Russias "natural spehere of influence" The Cold war turns into a smoother "detente" and drags on for several decased to come:rolleyes:
 
Generally speaking i wonder, was WW3 ever a spesific goal for either the US or the USSR?


Most likely Hiroshima and Nagasaki were atleast in part "warning shots" to the Soviet Union. Truman didn't at this point know, that the Manhattan project had already been breached

http://mediafilter.org/CAQ/caq53.hiroshima.html


After the Soviets got the bomb, they were still clearly the weaker side in the duel. US and Nato had clear first strike advantage. A fact, wich really didnt change at all during the Cold War. Communist China may have been a bit of a problem for Americas Asian domination plans tough:rolleyes:


I wonder, how big loses would America and Nato find "sustainable" I think 10 big American cities lost was somewhat of a "pain limit" The Soviets built so many missiles, that eventually neither side had no hope of coming out of such a conflict standing


In todayd world a lot of those realities really have not changed. China and Russia have greatly updated there missile arsenal, and a workable missile defence still remains a pipe dream. Russia probobly has means to put enough pressure against Poland to stop the current "missile defence" installations. Iran is also there friend now:rolleyes:



The American leadership is slowly waking up the fact, that the unipolar moment is yet to come. I think it will all ultimately come to China. Will they react before China becomes a nearly peer superpower, or watch powerlesly as it happens and except America and Nato(+Israel)simply becoming Middl-east powers? Ultimately it is a simple question of how America chooses to go down;with a whimper or with a bang?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090506/ap_on_re_as/as_china_us_2
 
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Likely enough with a whimper unless some mad ultra ropublican goes all out and tries to violently expand American infliuence.

btw would you like to do a collaboration with me on your Sino-American War coming out of Vietnam Idea.
 
Well, we will assume, that China will not allow North-Vietnam to fall, since they need them as a proxy state. It's not that Chinese "love" Vietnam or Vietnamese. Thats not it at all! They didn't "love" Koreans or Japanese either. They simple felt, that after American occupation of Japan they needed some kind of a "shield" against them, that being North-Korea and North-Vietnam.

We are assuming here, that Watergate never really happens, but the Paris peace accord on the other hand doesent bring ever lasting peace. So the bombings of North-Vietnam continue. Chinese and Soviet suplies to North-Vietnam however still keep on rolling in. At this point either China reacts violently to Americas continued bombing of North-Vietnam, or America tries to cut off Chinese suply lines by massive bombings on Souther-China. The Soviets may have also delibaretly been trying to provoke America into a war against China. They have enough nukes that can reach US soil to make sure America wont dare to drag them into the conflict. China on the other hand is an independent emerging Superpower, something they would very much want to get rid off. So the Soviets are working behind the scenes to provoke a conflict. Then there is the secerte "bankers club", whos main base of operations is deep in Latin-America. Since they know no nukes are realli aimned there, they have no problem with WW3 either. Thus you have several "interest groups" trying to provoke a conflict. Congress will naturally try to rise against the insanity, but they are accused of being communist traitors, and threatend with Marshall law and military dictatorship, if they dont comply. Soviet agents in Vietnam and Asia are purposely trying to make it look like Chinese forces there have attacked Americans, and then we have the "Shadow council" bribing powerfull members of the US armed forced to get the "go ahead" for the war on China. This is basicly how the action starts:rolleyes:
 
Yom Kippur War. If Nixon doesn't get supplies to the Israelis quickly, they may have to resort to tactical use of nuclear weapons. Since nobody knew they had their own homemade arsenal, the USSR is quite likely to assume the US provided them. Things deteriorate quickly... :(
 
Hes not a "hero" if you see only 1 nuke on the screen, it's probobly a computer error. If you see hundreds, it's time to push the button. He was just doing hes job, and WELL aware of the computer errors, as well as hes American counterparts. He shouldn't be paticularly rewarded for recognizing a computer error:rolleyes: After all, thats whats hes both trained and PAID to do;)
 
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