World Power Holy Roman Empire

What sort of POD would be required for the Holy Roman Empire to become the dominant European power and nation-state, possessing or exercising heavy influence in all or most European nations? Is this type of a wank plausible in any way, let alone possible at all? I know little to nothing about HRE internal politics, as well as its status amongst other powerful states of the Empire's time.

Assuming a proper POD can be found...
What would an HRE world power look like? What sort of governing system would run this mega-state, and how would its diverse populations behave in such a setting? I am not looking for any specific time frame for this POD to occur.
 
You have 3 routes IMHO

1. Have the Eastern Empire go like France, gradually with the monarchy reclaiming dominance over the other nobles and subordinating them

2. Have a dynasty of strong emperors like the Hohenstaufen establish their own rule and be powerful enough to bring all the other princes into line

3. Have the empire as it was on a high such as after the 30 Years War find a way to work

Old man next to me is a bit smelly, making it hard to think!

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
You have 3 routes IMHO

1. Have the Eastern Empire go like France, gradually with the monarchy reclaiming dominance over the other nobles and subordinating them

2. Have a dynasty of strong emperors like the Hohenstaufen establish their own rule and be powerful enough to bring all the other princes into line

3. Have the empire as it was on a high such as after the 30 Years War find a way to work

Old man next to me is a bit smelly, making it hard to think!

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
Thank you for your input, I'm a hardcore lurker and I appreciate the feedback from someone of your reputation.

The scenarios you present are interesting and fit into a number of ideas I have regarding this hypothetical TL's execution (not that I'm going to make one). Here are a few ways I can imagine a world power HRE developing (and please feel free to let me know how plausible/unplausible any of these ideas are):

-A POD that would vastly change the political mechanisms of the HRE into that of a centralized bureaucracy. This strong government would probably have to be established by a powerful monarchy from within the Empire, along with a number of successive rulers that are competent and hold ambitions of continental domination. I can see this occuring from ideas you posited, where either the HRE emerges from the medieval age as one of the top European powers (idea 1), or from an overly ambitious Hohenstaufen (Idea 2) or Habsburg Emperor along similar lines. Perhaps even a bloody, great war stemming from a radicalized Protestant Reformation on acid could accomplish this, resulting in massive territorial gain and influence for a devoutly pious Protestant or Counter-Reformative HRE. This could thrust the Empire into World Power status ala Germany 1871. This could happen from a more devastating *Thirty Years' War, where the Emperor demands subordination from lesser rulers across the Empire and forces the populations of the interior states to view themselves as Imperial citizens instead of Bohemians or Hanoverians or etc (ie the opposite of, when, in 1644, Ferninand III gave the rulers of all German states the right to make their own foreign policy)

-An influential state (most likely an elector) within the HRE becomes the dominant cultural, educational, commercial or perhaps religious center of the continent. The religious route might require the relocation of the Papacy, whereas making an Imperial City the premier European commercial or cultural hub would most likely come about from the decline of Muslim powers in the Middle East, or the creation of a west-east axis of ideas and goods between Western Europe and a rising Eastern power. This commerce-centric POD and its after-effects would greatly alter the distribution of wealth and influence amongst the European powers and would probably create the least recognizable universe when compared to OTL.
 
A good point about the Reformation - if Charles V succeeds in squashing this he can remake the empire with a lot more subordinate rulers in place of the deposed protestants.

One wonders if instead of abdicating he decides to dedicate his twilight years to GERMANY and making of it as centralised a system as he was building in Spain?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
A good point about the Reformation - if Charles V succeeds in squashing this he can remake the empire with a lot more subordinate rulers in place of the deposed protestants.

One wonders if instead of abdicating he decides to dedicate his twilight years to GERMANY and making of it as centralized a system as he was building in Spain?

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

Perhaps the opportunity of ruling huge chunks of Europe would not only motivate him to stay in power, but create a governing system that would effectively control the size of his bloated realm? And do you agree that he is the most likely candidate to make a super power HRE come about?
 
A good point about the Reformation - if Charles V succeeds in squashing this he can remake the empire with a lot more subordinate rulers in place of the deposed protestants.

Another idea is the Hapsburgs becoming Protestants as well. The increase of secular power for the Hapsburgs and the possibility to get their hands on church lands should benefit them considerably. Furthermore, it should keep them out of Italy and might provide a uniting purpose for the Protestant Empire: Defence against the Papists and promoting the "true faith". Such a scenario should rather quickly lead to a war in which the whole of Germany fights against France, the Emperor is supreme commander and overall war effort leads to more centralization.

I personally also like the idea of "expansionist dualism". Two large German states fighting for dominance - but with peaceful means. Something like Soviets-vs-USA: no "hot" war, just zones of influence in the HRE and expansion outward. This could provide a perfect wank scenario once Germany really unites.
 
Another idea is the Hapsburgs becoming Protestants as well. The increase of secular power for the Hapsburgs and the possibility to get their hands on church lands should benefit them considerably. Furthermore, it should keep them out of Italy and might provide a uniting purpose for the Protestant Empire: Defence against the Papists and promoting the "true faith". Such a scenario should rather quickly lead to a war in which the whole of Germany fights against France, the Emperor is supreme commander and overall war effort leads to more centralization.

I personally also like the idea of "expansionist dualism". Two large German states fighting for dominance - but with peaceful means. Something like Soviets-vs-USA: no "hot" war, just zones of influence in the HRE and expansion outward. This could provide a perfect wank scenario once Germany really unites.

Since Italy is also associated with the office of emperor, they will get involved in Italy. Besides they will not just hand over Italy to France and Spain. It could become less important, but they will make use of any good opportunity.
IOTL the Habsburgs tried to do this as Catholics, and they did believe that they were promoting the 'true faith'. So an alternative scenario could be a Catholic empire and a Huguenot France.
Anyway if Charles V doesn't become Charles I of Spain, he would have to focus more on the empire, but OTOH lose a valuable powerbase in Spain.
 
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Another idea is the Hapsburgs becoming Protestants as well. The increase of secular power for the Hapsburgs and the possibility to get their hands on church lands should benefit them considerably. Furthermore, it should keep them out of Italy and might provide a uniting purpose for the Protestant Empire: Defence against the Papists and promoting the "true faith". Such a scenario should rather quickly lead to a war in which the whole of Germany fights against France, the Emperor is supreme commander and overall war effort leads to more centralization.

I personally also like the idea of "expansionist dualism". Two large German states fighting for dominance - but with peaceful means. Something like Soviets-vs-USA: no "hot" war, just zones of influence in the HRE and expansion outward. This could provide a perfect wank scenario once Germany really unites.

Since Italy is also associated with the office of emperor, they will get involved in Italy. Besides they will not just hand over Italy to France and Spain. It could become less important, but they will make use of any good opportunity.
IOTL they tried to do this as Catholics, and they did believe that they were promoting the 'true faith'.

This is why I mentioned in my above post that a powerful HRE could be either Protestant or devoutly Counter-Reformative. A converted Habsburg or Hofenstaufen Emperor seeking to expand Protestant involvement of Imperial affairs might lead to a civil war. The winning side of this civil war, despite possessing a great number of embittered conquered folk and having to struggle through a period of recovery, would see is position greatly bolstered as either the leader of the Protestant movement (German-centric and probably more secular/humanist depending on butterflies) or as the Protector of the Catholic faith (Spain-Italy-Austria centric, also depending on butterflies). Either outcome would put the new HRE into a position much closer to what I am looking for.
 

Eurofed

Banned
This TL sketch of mine develops the successful Hohenstaufen PoD, which is IMO is one of the best to make the HRE a world power, since it unites Germany and Italy into a centralized whole since the 13th century. The successful Ottonians is another very good one for the same reason. Both PoDs are also easy to accomplish since they just require some emperors to live longer.

What would an HRE world power look like?

Using my scenario, in the late 16th century, a centralized imperial state spanning Germany, Italy, Bohemia-Moravia, Switzerland, Low Countries, Burgundy, western Poland, western Hungary, Slovenia-Croatia, and eastern France. It has vassallized eastern Poland, eastern Hungary, and Egypt, and has built a sizable colonial empire in the Americas spanning from southern Quebec to North Carolina and from southern Brazil to northern Argentina, with some bits of the Caribbeans. The success of the HRE butterflied the revitalization of the Byzantine Empire (which regained Anatolia, the Levant, and Mesopotamia), and the success of the Angevin Empire (British Isles plus western France), which owns a colonial empire in the US Deep South, Cuba, Texas, and northern Mexico, and of Iberia, which annexed southern France and owns a colonial empire in North Africa, southern Mexico, Central America, and Gran Colombia.
 
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