Wlad Goes Home: A Poland TL

Wlad Goes Home: A Poland Timeline


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IV: Rise of Casimir the Great and the Early Conquests

In the September of 1475, only a few months after King Wladyslaw of Varna’s death, the new king Casimir IV has war declared on him. His namesake and uncle, Grand Duke Casimir of Lithuania had been jealous of his brother for many years. And knowing now that Casimir IV was not a particularly martially inclined ruler, he saw a fast and easy chance to claim his nephew’s crown. He also expected after the Polish-Hungarian Union’s rough beginning, that the Hungarians would quickly declare themselves independent of their Polish overlords. This was not the case however. Many Hungarians had been born under Polish rule, or had grown to accept the rulers through the Hunyadi’s support of them. The Grand Duke was not in the situation he believed he would be in.

Beginning in October of 1475, the combined Polish-Hungarian forces marched into Lithuania under the command of King Casimir, Grandmaster Ladislaus Hunyadi, and Prince John Jagiellon, the king’s youngest brother. After shattering the majority of the Grand Duke’s army in the Battle of Chelm’s Field, the King orders the army’s march south in order to avoid the winter as much as possible. During the spring of 1476, the King’s military incompetence begins to show. He begins to copy his father’s strategy of divide and conquer, an strategy that failed horribly in the Civil War two decades before. The King ignores Ladislaus and John’s advice and pushes his plan, telling each of the commanders to take a third of the army and plan to converge on Vilnius at the end of the summer. The generals have no option but to comply to the ill-guided order.

Luckily for Casimir, the plan goes well, as most of the Lithuanian army was destroyed in Chelm’s Field and Grand Duke Casimir was having trouble raising another army. The Polish-Hungarian armies converge on Vilnius at the end of August, 1476, only having to deal with minor scuffles along the way. Casimir orders the armies to bunker down and begin sieging the city. The siege goes on for months with little change, and knowing the full force of a harsh northern winter is soon coming, King Casimir orders the city to be assaulted on the first of November. And so it happens. The army destroys the city walls in hours, and rush in. Once the armies get inside the city the matter is different however. the Grand Duke was prepared with a small contingent inside the city walls. Prince John is slain in the ensuing conflict, as well as thousands of other Poles, Hungarians, and Lithuanians.

King Casimir manages to capture the city and his Uncle and cousins by early morning of November 2, 1476. The victory is pyrrhic though, Casimir throwing away countless lives to take the city, his brother’s included. He takes direct control of the Duchy for the time being, and in the spring of 1477, marches his back-stabbing family home to Krakow in chains. Casimir shows no mercy in their punishment. Grand Duke Casimir’s daughters are married off to distant lords, or shipped to nunneries. His sons are kept in Krakow’s dungeons indefinitely. As for the Grand Duke and his eldest son, Vladislaus, they are publicly executed in the town square, on charges of treason.

Once the matter of the Grand Duke is settled, Casimir turns his attention towards the Duchy of Lithuania. He declares his younger brother Wladyslaw to be Grand Duke, severely limiting their independence. He disallows all relations with nations other than Poland-Hungary, and makes them pay a considerable amount of income to him. This makes Lithuania a direct vassal in all but name.

Due to the conflict, King Casimir was still not married, two years into his reign. Going against all advice, King Casimir decides to betrothe himself to Ivan II of Muscovy’s newborn daughter, Helena (1). His advisors assumed a young princess who can produce heirs immediately was the answer, insuring that the succession, assuming something happened to Casimir, went smoothly to discourage anymore civil wars. King Casimir of the other hand wanted to solidify his relationship with Muscovy to get the powerful Duchy as an ally in case of a war with the Ottomans. The Kings stubbornness in all fields of ruling earned him the title, at least behind his back, King Casimir the Ass. Not that anyone would have called the headsman happy king that nickname to his face.

By the year 1480 King Casimir was growing bored. He had beaten the Lithuanians into submission three years earlier and had only sat in his castle since. He had visited his sister Dorothea in Portugal several times after her marriage to Prince John, son of King Afonso the African, in 1471, and had increased his visits since his victory, but was ready for something interesting to happen back home. So, in mid 1480, Casimir declared the Pole-Teuton War, for the full annexation of the Teutonic lands in the Baltic. He had no interest in leading himself though, knowing fully well that there were better suited men for the job. King Casimir was so sure of victory he didn’t even call the hungarian lords to arms, depriving him of roughly half of his army. He appointed Ladislaus Hunyadi to be commander of the army, and sent them in, simply telling them to “conquer”. And conquer they did, and within the year they had conquered the Teuton’s lands. The Peace of Danzig was signed on January first, 1481. Even still, King Casimir was not satisfied, and declared war on Moldavia, the small duchy trapped between Poland-Hungary, Lithuania, and the Ottoman Turks.

Again Casimir doesn’t call upon his full force, knowing he wouldn’t need it. He sends in Ladislaus and the army, and again, he has conquered within a year. He puts Voivode Mircea Drăculești of Wallachia in charge of the new land, partly to try and patch the gash that their fathers carved between the two families. These two minor wars, after the Polish-Lithuanian War, are known as ‘The Early Conquests’.

The Early Conquests weren’t all good though. Voivode Ladislaus Hunyadi, Grandmaster of the Knights of the White Cape, died on December fourth, 1481, just a few days before the peace with Moldavia was signed. This left King Casimir to care for his nephews, Kasmer and Corvin, age five and three respectively. Casimir accepted the two boys as if they were his own sons, as the now thirty-five year old King was still unmarried. He has military careers in mind for them, just like their father and grandfather. Casimir also plans for Kasmer to become the Grandmaster of the Knights of the White Cape, and for Corvin to take over the duties as voivode of Transylvania. Casimir’s reign so far has looked promising, the rise of Casimir the Great.

(1). Not the same as OTL Helena. Yes They are Ivan III’s daughter and have the same name, but OTL Helena was born in 1476, this Helena was born in ‘77 to a different mother.
 
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Poland can into empire. Just a question, since I really have no idea how Polish-Teuton wars went IOTL for the most part-is there any reason why it only took Casimir a year to conquer the Teutonic lands?
 
Now that Lithuania and Transylvania are annexed and made part of Poland-Hungary - what's next? Will Poland-Hungary take Belarus and the Ukraine? If so, what about the lands of the Czechs, Slovakia, Slovenia, and Croatia - or will this lead Poland-Hungary into conflict with the Holy Roman Empire? :confused::confused::confused: Please let me know. Than you. :):):)
 
Now that Lithuania and Transylvania are annexed and made part of Poland-Hungary - what's next? Will Poland-Hungary take Belarus and the Ukraine? If so, what about the lands of the Czechs, Slovakia, Slovenia, and Croatia - or will this lead Poland-Hungary into conflict with the Holy Roman Empire? :confused::confused::confused: Please let me know. Than you. :):):)
What is Belarus and Ukraine now were parts of what was referred as Lithuania (as is Grand Duchy of Lithuania) back then.
 
Will Poland-Hungary take Belarus and the Ukraine?
Already done :)
687px-Kr%C3%B3lestwo_Polskie_i_Wielkie_Ksi%C4%99stwo_Litewskie_w_1466_r..svg.png

Smolensk and Briansk are Russian cities now.
Maps:
1386-1434
1466
1500

For me, it is some strange, that Lithuanian army was completely destroyed in only one battle. And it seems, that Lithuanian nobles are not agree to be the "conquered part of Poland", but I like Lithuania :)
And it is very interesting, how the duke Casimir ruled before 1475 :D
 
For me, it is some strange, that Lithuanian army was completely destroyed in only one battle. And it seems, that Lithuanian nobles are not agree to be the "conquered part of Poland", but I like Lithuania :)
And it is very interesting, how the duke Casimir ruled before 1475 :D
Yes. GDL nobility back then was...mixed bunch but not made of pushovers (I prefer the GDL abbreviation to differentiate between Litsvin and Lithuanian better for those who usually get confused).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikalojus_Radvila_the_Old
I have hard times seeing this guy, for example, just bowing down to new Polish overlord without a fight.
Ditto for him
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstanty_Ostrogski
 
I'm not going to multi-quote all of the responses, but respond as a whole, Poland didn't annex Lithuania all at once. They are still in their own semi-indepence limbo. He just severely limited their power, to try and prevent another uprising. Plus, on why the Liths were crushed so easily. You've all been making points about how the nobility, specifically the Lithuanian nobility, isn't just going to take being ruled sitting down. Well, Grand Duke Casimir was a foreigner too. Any trouble they would have with King Casimir, they would have with him as far as I can tell.
 
Poland can into empire. Just a question, since I really have no idea how Polish-Teuton wars went IOTL for the most part-is there any reason why it only took Casimir a year to conquer the Teutonic lands?

Something I was thinking, but hadn't got around to mentioning in the TL yet, was that the Teutons were becoming a more centralized nation, building power in the HRE proper. I was careful to mention the Baltic holdings were annexed, rather than the entirety of the order.

Now that Lithuania and Transylvania are annexed and made part of Poland-Hungary - what's next? Will Poland-Hungary take Belarus and the Ukraine? If so, what about the lands of the Czechs, Slovakia, Slovenia, and Croatia - or will this lead Poland-Hungary into conflict with the Holy Roman Empire? :confused::confused::confused: Please let me know. Than you. :):):)

Like was previously mentioned, Belarus and Ukraine were part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania already. Transylvania was part of Hungary from the start. The Czechs are under the Kingdom of Bohemia in the HRE right now, so for the time being they are protected by the Emperor. Croatia was also part of Hungary from the beginning, as was Slovakia. Slovenia though I'm not as sure about. I think though, it was Austrian.

Conflict with members of the HRE is coming though.
 
Thanks for letting me know Zorqal. :) I really appreciate it. :) If Poland-Hungary has Belarus and the Ukraine via Lithuania do they decide expansion there should stop so as to consolidate their gains as well as prepare for wars with the various Russian kingdoms? Will Poland-Hungary in the future decide to expand into European Russia proper at least up to the Ural Mountains (as a proposed border)? Perhaps expand further east to Siberia? :confused::confused::confused: Also, with Hungary possessing Transylvania - will they decide to expand into Romania proper and perhaps into Moldova/Moldavia - with the Carpathian Mountains as a proposed border? Moreover, since Hungary also has Croatia - will they decide to expand into Bosnia (and maybe even into Albania) and thus get into conflict with both the Serbians and the Ottoman Empire? Will Poland-Hungary, in the future, decide to make Bulgaria into a client state and seek the destruction of Serbia? Lastly, If Poland-Hungary were to achieve all of their expansionist plans will they seek to Polonise/Hungarised (and even Lithuanized) the cultures of the peoples they conquered and seek to impose Roman Catholicism Christianity on the conquered peoples as well (including their Bulgarian client state), which then results in Islam ceasing to exist altogether or even severely curtailed/marginalized; Eastern Orthodox Christians being made into Uniates/Greek Catholics (i.e. in communion with the Pope in Rome)? Please kindly let me know your answers to my questions. Thanks again. :):):)
 
Originally posted by Zorqal
King Casimir manages to capture the city and his Uncle and cousins by early morning of November 2, 1476. The victory is pyrrhic though, Casimir throwing away countless lives to take the city, his brother’s included. He takes direct control of the Duchy for the time being, and in the spring of 1477, marches his back-stabbing family home to Warsaw in chains. Casimir shows no mercy in their punishment. Grand Duke Casimir’s daughters are married off to distant lords, or shipped to nunneries. His sons are kept in Warsaw’s dungeons indefinitely. And for the Grand Duke and his eldest son, Vladislaus, are publicly executed in Warsaw, on charges of treason.

Why Warsaw? It wasn't even a part of Poland at the time. Masovia was formally indepenent (although Poland's vassal) until 1529. I also have a feeling that Polish-Teutonic war was too easy and too quick...
 
Thanks for letting me know Zorqal. :) I really appreciate it. :) If Poland-Hungary has Belarus and the Ukraine via Lithuania do they decide expansion there should stop so as to consolidate their gains as well as prepare for wars with the various Russian kingdoms? Will Poland-Hungary in the future decide to expand into European Russia proper at least up to the Ural Mountains (as a proposed border)? Perhaps expand further east to Siberia? :confused::confused::confused: Also, with Hungary possessing Transylvania - will they decide to expand into Romania proper and perhaps into Moldova/Moldavia - with the Carpathian Mountains as a proposed border? Moreover, since Hungary also has Croatia - will they decide to expand into Bosnia (and maybe even into Albania) and thus get into conflict with both the Serbians and the Ottoman Empire? Will Poland-Hungary, in the future, decide to make Bulgaria into a client state and seek the destruction of Serbia? Lastly, If Poland-Hungary were to achieve all of their expansionist plans will they seek to Polonise/Hungarised (and even Lithuanized) the cultures of the peoples they conquered and seek to impose Roman Catholicism Christianity on the conquered peoples as well (including their Bulgarian client state), which then results in Islam ceasing to exist altogether or even severely curtailed/marginalized; Eastern Orthodox Christians being made into Uniates/Greek Catholics (i.e. in communion with the Pope in Rome)? Please kindly let me know your answers to my questions. Thanks again. :):):)

A lot of that you will have to wait and see what happens, it will be covered eventually. some of it sooner rather than later.

Why Warsaw? It wasn't even a part of Poland at the time. Masovia was formally indepenent (although Poland's vassal) until 1529. I also have a feeling that Polish-Teutonic war was too easy and too quick...

As for the Warsaw bit, that was a mistake on my part... :eek: I misread some information and had the switch between the capitals of Warsaw and Krakow backwards. The part you pointed out may not be my only mistake on that, I'll have to check.

On the Polish-Teutonic War, as I mentioned above, something that I was thinking but hadn't said yet was the Orders growth of power in the HRE proper, so had very little focus on the Baltic, where they knew Poland was a growing power who would probably keep attacking to get the coast line. Pretty much they thought it was in their best interest to give the land up, so they can focus in Germany. :D
 
bravo with the new update :)

the HRE must make sure to split up poland lithunia or hungary…or lithuina at the least.

the crimeans are probably dead soon. or will they survive by offering their services to the poland juggernaut.
 
Originally posted by Zorqual
On the Polish-Teutonic War, as I mentioned above, something that I was thinking but hadn't said yet was the Orders growth of power in the HRE proper, so had very little focus on the Baltic, where they knew Poland was a growing power who would probably keep attacking to get the coast line. Pretty much they thought it was in their best interest to give the land up, so they can focus in Germany.
I'm affraid it sounds more than a little strange to me. The Order created a strong, very well organized state in Prussia and Livonia, where they were unquestionable masters, answering only to the pope (if even that). It was practically their main base, their homeland. What rise in power in HRE would have made them to relinquish so prosperous lands (Danzig/Gdańsk!) they had worked and fought so hard to conquer.
Now, ITTL Polandis much stronger than Poland before the Thriteen Years War IOTL - they have strong, hardened in many battles army (even if Hungarians are not invited); let's assume that Prussian Union rebels like IOTL, so the Order is in much worse position. I still think it would have taken Poles a little longer than a single year campaign (in that time and place any bigger campaign in winter was more or less impossible). Unless they were really lucky.

So, in mid 1480, Casimir declared the Pole-Teuton War, for the full annexation of the Teutonic lands in the Baltic.
Does it mean Poland conquered ALL THE TEUTONIC STATE? Because pretty much all of it can be described as Baltic territory. I doubt Poles would have been able to do it, sorry. Not in a single year campaign. Or did you just mean Pomerelia (or Eastern Pomerania) with Danzig/Gdańsk and all other territories gained by Poland in the treaty of Toruń in 1466 IOTL?
 
Originally posted by Zorqual
I'm affraid it sounds more than a little strange to me. The Order created a strong, very well organized state in Prussia and Livonia, where they were unquestionable masters, answering only to the pope (if even that). It was practically their main base, their homeland. What rise in power in HRE would have made them to relinquish so prosperous lands (Danzig/Gdańsk!) they had worked and fought so hard to conquer.
Now, ITTL Polandis much stronger than Poland before the Thriteen Years War IOTL - they have strong, hardened in many battles army (even if Hungarians are not invited); let's assume that Prussian Union rebels like IOTL, so the Order is in much worse position. I still think it would have taken Poles a little longer than a single year campaign (in that time and place any bigger campaign in winter was more or less impossible). Unless they were really lucky.

Does it mean Poland conquered ALL THE TEUTONIC STATE? Because pretty much all of it can be described as Baltic territory. I doubt Poles would have been able to do it, sorry. Not in a single year campaign. Or did you just mean Pomerelia (or Eastern Pomerania) with Danzig/Gdańsk and all other territories gained by Poland in the treaty of Toruń in 1466 IOTL?

I meant the area that would have bordered Poland, so not the areas of Estonia, Livonia, etc. Sorry.

Also, they held numerous Castles and whatnot across Europe IOTL, and ITTL, they are more focused there at the moment
 
bravo with the new update :)

the HRE must make sure to split up poland lithunia or hungary…or lithuina at the least.

the crimeans are probably dead soon. or will they survive by offering their services to the poland juggernaut.

Thank you :)

The HRE is eying the union, one nation in particular, but they aren't to concerned yet.

The crimeans are someone I hadn't thought about yet... I was just assuming they would go to Muscovy... but them in Poland, or at least Lithuania is interesting... maybe a culture like the cossacks in Russia... :D:D I may have to work that in.
 
I was wondering.. is there anyone who would want to help me do fact-checking and things? It's come to my attention I may not have been the most accurate in my previous chapters, and while I am going to go with I already have, I want to be as accurate as possible in the future. So, would anyone mind helping me? I would be really appreciative. You would have to be okay with spoilers though, and reading through what I have planned so far. Thanks so much to anyone who would help, it would be a huge favor.
 
Well, Polish history is a hobby of mine. This is a period I am weak on though, so while I can help, I wouldn't depend on me.

fasquardon
 
Well, Polish history is a hobby of mine. This is a period I am weak on though, so while I can help, I wouldn't depend on me.

fasquardon

Its fact checking more than anything else. Even just double checking what I've researched. If you want to help, message me. I'd gladly accept it.
 
So, would anyone mind helping me? I would be really appreciative.
I think, the history of GDL in TTL in 1440-1475 is important.

For example, you have written "By January of 1455 though, the Poles had lost all respect for their monarch". I think, it was logical for Poles to call Casimir (he was also the son of Jagello and he was able to add Lithuania to Poland again) and make him the new "good" king.

I thought, that Casimir did not want to be the Polish king (why not? GDL is a very large country, and I don't know what was GDL in 1455 in TTL). But in 1475 Casimir wanted to be the Polish king.

I can try to write this part, if you want, and send you in PM. If I understand correctly, the main goal is to add GDL to Poland in 1475? ;)
 
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