AussieHawker
Banned
Your challenge if you choose to accept it is to have the HRE never form with a POD of 950 AD. What would be the main effects of no Large but decentralized state holding most of Europe.
Not with a PoD in 950 or later. At this point, West Frankish carolingians counted their teeth, hoping really really hard they could keep the throne just a bit longer.Well an ATL HRE might instead form from West Francia, which at least encompasses West Francia, Burgundy (almost a necessity to play a role in Italy for West Francia) and Italy.
Well, it would need to be centralized in first place : people tend to believe early HRE was centralized only because the post Westphalian HRE was a clusterfuck of statelets. But medieval empire wasn't much more unified than other medieval states around.Also the HRE didn't have to decentralize the way it day.
OTOH others seem to believe that the HRE was predestined to decentralize. In 950 the Carolingian states and/or Carolingian successor states, were not that different from each other (yet).
Sorry, I meant *western* frankish (I have a good excuse though, german and french kingship distinguishing themselves quickly).Both the French and German kingship evolved from the Frankish kingship. West Francia was in a better position to continue the Frankish traditions than East Francia.
I think you may seeing the issue upside-down : Robertians/Capetians managed to have an existing continued line because the dynastic inheritance wasn't challenged.The dynastic development is, where East Francia and West Francia also drew a different card. The Robertian male line still exist at the present time through the Capetians. Their counterparts in East Francia/ the German Kingdom/ the Holy Roman Empire were less lucky.
Sorry, I meant *western* frankish (I have a good excuse though, german and french kingship distinguishing themselves quickly).
I think you may seeing the issue upside-down : Robertians/Capetians managed to have an existing continued line because the dynastic inheritance wasn't challenged.
In Germany and HRE, however, the dynastic inheritence wasn't fully enforced : at the exception of Ottonian dynasty, the eventual successions were less wars of inheritence than wars of sucession in the proper meaning : Staufer or Lothar struggle is quite symptomatic of this, to not speak of anti-rex popping there and there.
If Salian, would have been able to form a more cohesive and enforcable succession and dynastic law, you could have ended with a dynastic transmission not unlike Capetians to Capetians-Valois that wasn't really challenged within the kingdom itself.