I really want to know what you guys think about the Byzantine Empire's borders that changed constantly during the history.
With what borders do you think the Eastern Roman Empire would reach its performance peak, with no overextension or not too small?
- Thread starter Tupiniquim
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For me, at the very least it would be Greece and all of Asia Minor. Not peak though. Probably if it can reach to the Danube and Egypt while keeping stability, that would be even better, and probably wouldn't be that difficult to hold if they stay loyal. Maybe Italy, but I don't know that that can be kept loyal. West of Libya seems too far from Constantinople. Maybe some parts in the Black Sea too though?
I personally agree with that too, but it's very hard to hold Egypt without holding Syria aswell... I see East Rome as a powerful realm holding all the balkans and keeping it romanized (or at least big parts of it, with a controlled slavic settlement like the goths in Opsikion), Syria using Nahr al Khabur river as border, Egypt, and that's it.
OTL Ottomans could control former ERE lands so Byzantine empire can do it with needful time after Ανακατάκτηση "reconquest" for lasting control.
Justinian borders? No. Empire was forced to make autonomous exarchates in Italy and Africa because they can't directly rule from Constantinople
Justinian borders? No. Empire was forced to make autonomous exarchates in Italy and Africa because they can't directly rule from Constantinople
Oh, yeah, I meant Egypt with Syria and the Levant as a connector.
Yeah, Considering how independent Italian cities and city-states were, I doubt the ability of Byzantium to keep them stable without being able to devote a large enough force to the region for a while, or ensuring they wouldn't rebel the moment the Empire has its attention elsewhere. I mean, there was a war over a bucket in the HRE, in addition to the failure of Byzantium to contest the Lombards and the Ottomans to take Southern Italy beyond a few cities maybe.
...or maybe a POD where the Romans are able to repeal the arab invasions (Maurice doesn't get killed so the last Byzantine-Sassanid war never happens), and keep Syria + Egypt.
That would do it. About Italy, the longer the Byzantines can keep them loyal, which is more likely with the Arabs repulsed and with more men and money, the less likely the Italians are to revolt. So even that may be possible, though I wouldn't bet on it.
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Egypt isn't hard to hold from a military perspective, Fortifying the Sinai isn't and patrolling the coasts isn't that hard.
The issue was maintaining the loyalty of the Egyptian population. Lower taxes and cultural tolerance should do the trick.
The issue was maintaining the loyalty of the Egyptian population. Lower taxes and cultural tolerance should do the trick.
In my opinion, the most stable version of ERE could be Basil II's realm.
Without Egypt, Syria and North Africa it would be less economically advanced for sure, but.. It would be culturally homogenous more or less. And for me that matters more when it comes to stability.
Without Egypt, Syria and North Africa it would be less economically advanced for sure, but.. It would be culturally homogenous more or less. And for me that matters more when it comes to stability.
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I'd say what's key is Crimea, if you can make the Black Sea a mare nostrum, you can get grain easily, and have access to Central Europe through the Danube, also making a Danube frontier much easier to defend.
Get to the Danube, fully secure and settle Crimea.
Use Tatar mercenaries against the Turks and Arabs in the South, exile troublesome generals and heretics to Crimea
Get to the Danube, fully secure and settle Crimea.
Use Tatar mercenaries against the Turks and Arabs in the South, exile troublesome generals and heretics to Crimea
Performance peak? To me that means not only stability, but also defensive borders and economic power. To me the borders would be like the borders of the Ottoman Empire in 1683. But I would exclude:
In Europe everything north of the Danube.
In Africa everything west of Constantine ( today it is in Algeria).
In Asia everything east of the borders of the Empire of Justinian, except for the coast of the Gulf of Aqaba and Mesopotamia.
On the other hand I would include:
The bigger Islands of the West Mediterranean (Balearics, Sardinia and Corsica)
Every Island in the Eastern Mediteranean
Italy up to the Alps
Everything south of the Danube up to Vienna
I also think that the system of Exarchies was a mistake, if I'm allowed to sugest a better system it would be a reform of the Praetorian Prefecture system, introducing limited time for the magister militum and praefects to stay in one Prefecture, and a system of rotating them around the empire each "x" years. I also think that a system of rotating inspectors to report on these governors would be a good idea. I also have other ideas of reforms to military and Church that I think would be good in the long term, given that I have the advantage of having hindsight.
In Europe everything north of the Danube.
In Africa everything west of Constantine ( today it is in Algeria).
In Asia everything east of the borders of the Empire of Justinian, except for the coast of the Gulf of Aqaba and Mesopotamia.
On the other hand I would include:
The bigger Islands of the West Mediterranean (Balearics, Sardinia and Corsica)
Every Island in the Eastern Mediteranean
Italy up to the Alps
Everything south of the Danube up to Vienna
I also think that the system of Exarchies was a mistake, if I'm allowed to sugest a better system it would be a reform of the Praetorian Prefecture system, introducing limited time for the magister militum and praefects to stay in one Prefecture, and a system of rotating them around the empire each "x" years. I also think that a system of rotating inspectors to report on these governors would be a good idea. I also have other ideas of reforms to military and Church that I think would be good in the long term, given that I have the advantage of having hindsight.
There’s no reason to think that that would effect stability.
Anyhoo, Justinian’s but without Spain.
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This.
Greece, Turkey, Cyprus, Albania, North Macedonia, Bulgaria, parts of Armenia. Maybe the Levant coast if the navy isn't bad and there's no other navy to stop you.
I chose Basil’s territory because it’s closest to what I think, but I think you need to add Egypt and Palestine to it, along with probably a buffer zone in Libya and Mesopotamia to allow for the protection of the heartlands
Holding Egypt will prevent the loss of North Africa, and holding Syria as well keeps the Arabs out of the Mediterranean. Each loss only led to greater strategic vulnerability. Egypt was lost because of religious oppression against the Copts, by the Orthodox Emperors in Constantinople.