With these additional capacities, can Germany invade Britain successfully in 1940?

How to invade England in 1940, or how to start a mutiny?

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How to invade England in 1940, or how to start a mutiny?

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From the backgrounds its obvious those vessels are on nice calm lakes or reservoirs somewhere. Just imagine those trying to cope with even a mild day in the English Channel. One good wave and you can say bye-bye to that gun crew and imagine that barge bobbing up and down at the shoreline while trying to unload that tank. All of which would be academic if they had the misfortune to run into an RN destroyer. They wouldn't even have to shoot, the wake from a destroyer making a hard turn would probably take out most of the ferry crew...
 
From the backgrounds its obvious those vessels are on nice calm lakes or reservoirs somewhere. Just imagine those trying to cope with even a mild day in the English Channel. One good wave and you can say bye-bye to that gun crew and imagine that barge bobbing up and down at the shoreline while trying to unload that tank. All of which would be academic if they had the misfortune to run into an RN destroyer. They wouldn't even have to shoot, the wake from a destroyer making a hard turn would probably take out most of the ferry crew...
And they'd have been trying to cross the Channel in Autumn. That'd be fun.
 
At work.

Not able to provide links but some thoughts.

The knowledge of Whittle's engine has been diseminating since 1921.

The "Motor jet" has been around as long as experimentally.

So.... a simple wooden light demonstrator possibly looking something like the little Japanies Ohka 21 just powered by a couple of wing podded 'Motorjets' to get the concepts etc up and flying.

The poor Czechoslovakians were activly exporting and showing off already what was to become the Pzt38 after surrender so there's some precedent for the Germans having one earlier (Late 1930's) to make into a homegrown machine/equivalent of their own.

The thread "Alternative History Armored Fighting Vehicles" has a quite naffy 'Otter' as a potential derivative of the Czech machine.

Cheers.
 
The poor Czechoslovakians were activly exporting and showing off already what was to become the Pzt38 after surrender so there's some precedent for the Germans having one earlier (Late 1930's) to make into a homegrown machine/equivalent of their own.

The Best light Tank of the pre-War period, that no-one but the Hungarians took notice of
stridsvagn_M38.png

Swedish L-60
8 tons. 20mm gun. Torsion Bars, Periscope, not slits for vision devices. Welded. 142hp V8 for 28mph.
From a 1034 design, upgunned(37mm) and uparmored(50mm) as the years went by
 
Ah, the Toldi I. From what I understand it was armed not with a 20mm cannon but a 20mm anti-tank rifle. Can you imagine taking this up against a T-34? The Toldi II got a 40mm weapon (the 37mm up-bored to utilize 40mm ammo that Hungary manufactured) while the Toldi III finally got a decent 75mm weapons.
 
Ah, the Toldi I. From what I understand it was armed not with a 20mm cannon but a 20mm anti-tank rifle. Can you imagine taking this up against a T-34? The Toldi II got a 40mm weapon (the 37mm up-bored to utilize 40mm ammo that Hungary manufactured) while the Toldi III finally got a decent 75mm weapons.
Depending on the year on country, had a variety of 20mm and 37mm cannons.

Don't skoff at 20mmAT either, 20mm Solothurn was nothing to sneeze at, its basically the same cartridge at the Flak 30 in German Tank and Armored Cars, and was fully automatic, as far as anything with a 10 round magazine can be
 
OK, but still - would you take that up against a T-34? Or worse, a KV-1?

I liked what Ian Hogg once said about anti-tank rifles - if your lucky the tank ignores you. If not it will hunt its tormentor (i.e. you) down...
 
OK, but still - would you take that up against a T-34? Or worse, a KV-1?
There is documented proof of an M8 scout car killing a King Tiger with its 37mm. Amazing what higher mobility along with situational awareness can do.

Oh, and crew with Brass Balls the size of melons.

It's a Light Tank. Light Tanks should do light tank things, like recon, and be able to knock out other light vehicles when they weight 9 tons.

Crews inside T34/76 were nearly blind to their surroundings when buttoned up, and KV only slightly better.
 
If you're coming up future techs that the Germans might have thought of and developed before 1940, then the one to come up with is proper Landing Craft Assault ship.

In all honesty, with the benefit of hindsight, the Germans would have been better off not bothering with the Bismark class battleships and concentrating on amphibious warfare.

if not planned for the UK, then for Norway and the USSR? seems they evolved quickly thru the MFPs/AFPs?

do not know the practical limits of those? it would seem a better design than the 300-odd R-Boats they constructed during the '30's?

they eventually had a stronger bow, could the MAN diesels fro the R-Boats have been employed too? or would that be overkill? and/or they could not be operated at increased speeds?
 
do not know the practical limits of those? it would seem a better design than the 300-odd R-Boats they constructed during the '30's?

I am really really surprised that the Germans built 300 small minesweepers in the 1930s. Are you sure about this number?
 
Have to confess I was getting worried... no Sealion thread for quite some time, now... :cool:

I do have a question, and correct me if I'm wrong: wasn't the UK actually closer to a jet fighter, in 39-40, than Germany, considering the UK had Whittle and Germany was still working up in the mid 1930s? Assuming Whittle had been given proper support in 1935-36, not the dribble of spare change and interest he got, is it too much to assume we'd see, at the very least, a preseries Jet Gloster flying around in late 1940?
 
if not planned for the UK, then for Norway and the USSR? seems they evolved quickly thru the MFPs/AFPs?

do not know the practical limits of those? it would seem a better design than the 300-odd R-Boats they constructed during the '30's?

they eventually had a stronger bow, could the MAN diesels fro the R-Boats have been employed too? or would that be overkill? and/or they could not be operated at increased speeds?

I am really really surprised that the Germans built 300 small minesweepers in the 1930s. Are you sure about this number?

correct in the number but not the timeframe, sorry for the error, a quick glance shows R40 by 1939, R62 during 1940, so only 60-odd boats available (historically for a speculative SeaLion) there are some captured boats of the same approx. size and much smaller FR-boats but my reference was not to those.

my reading of Fleets of World War Two, they completed over 300 up to 1945. was conflating two different subjects, the pool of resources they expended on the R-Boats in total, and whether they might have been better used on MFPs and any design issues with the latter.

we are back to your point that some design changes occur in response to events or a need. could they have grasped onto an MFP/AFP to fulfill R-Boat harbor/coastal role, then they could have eclipsed the latter.
 
There are two big problems with "what if they get X, Y or Z"

1). if they take the time and resources developing X, Y or Z, unless they also have more time and resources than in RL what did they have to give up that they had in RL and where does that put them?

2), unless they developed X, Y & Z in absolute secrecy what does Britain do to respond to the new threat of X, Y & Z?



There is documented proof of an M8 scout car killing a King Tiger with its 37mm. Amazing what higher mobility along with situational awareness can do.

Oh, and crew with Brass Balls the size of melons.

It's a Light Tank. Light Tanks should do light tank things, like recon, and be able to knock out other light vehicles when they weight 9 tons.

Crews inside T34/76 were nearly blind to their surroundings when buttoned up, and KV only slightly better.

And people have fought off grizzly bears with pen knifes, weird unlikely things happen at times but you don't fight wars on the assumption they can be relied on to occur.
 
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There is documented proof of an M8 scout car killing a King Tiger with its 37mm. Amazing what higher mobility along with situational awareness can do.

If I remember correctly, that was thanks to multiple shots to the rear, at less than 25m, into a tank that was crewed by idiots (driving along on their own, in hostile territory...). So, while one has to admire the melon-sized balls of the crew, it's not exactly the kind of action that can be set as an example...
 
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