With an East-first strategy in WWI, how much would Germany benefit from East. European manpower?

CaliGuy

Banned
With an East-first strategy in WWI, how much would Germany benefit from Eastern European manpower?

To elaborate on this, if Germany began aggressively recruiting Eastern Europeans to fight on its side in World War I and wooing them with promises of national independence, how successful would Germany be in regards to this? Indeed, how much Eastern European manpower could Germany get and what effect would this have on Germany's performance in World War I as well as on World War I in general?

Also, what if, in the couple of decades before World War I, Germany would have treated its own minorities better? Would this have made more Eastern Europeans believe that German promises of national independence during World War I are sincere?

Any thoughts on all of this?
 

Deleted member 1487

With an East-first strategy in WWI, how much would Germany benefit from Eastern European manpower?

To elaborate on this, if Germany began aggressively recruiting Eastern Europeans to fight on its side in World War I and wooing them with promises of national independence, how successful would Germany be in regards to this? Indeed, how much Eastern European manpower could Germany get and what effect would this have on Germany's performance in World War I as well as on World War I in general?

Also, what if, in the couple of decades before World War I, Germany would have treated its own minorities better? Would this have made more Eastern Europeans believe that German promises of national independence during World War I are sincere?

Any thoughts on all of this?
Didn't seem to get them very far IOTL. Their allied 'governments' did not have much support among the locals, while the Polish Legion, an Austrian project, turned on them and only numbered about 25k men at it's peak (they became the nucleus of the post-war Polish government). Actually it seems that the Germans had more success recruiting people in WW2 to fight for them! And of course wasted the chance to recruit many more.
Here was the basically failed German WW1 effort to recruit Poles:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polska_Siła_Zbrojna
Later though it helped provide part of the nucleus for the post-war Polish army.

The Russians had more success recruiting from the Central Powers armies IIRC.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Didn't seem to get them very far IOTL. Their allied 'governments' did not have much support among the locals, while the Polish Legion, an Austrian project, turned on them and only numbered about 25k men at it's peak (they became the nucleus of the post-war Polish government). Actually it seems that the Germans had more success recruiting people in WW2 to fight for them! And of course wasted the chance to recruit many more.
Here was the basically failed German WW1 effort to recruit Poles:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polska_Siła_Zbrojna
Later though it helped provide part of the nucleus for the post-war Polish army.

The Russians had more success recruiting from the Central Powers armies IIRC.
Very interesting!

Also, what exactly do you think would have resulted in greater success for the Central Powers in recruiting Poles, Ukrainians, Jews, and Balts in the territories of the Russian Empire?
 

Deleted member 1487

Very interesting!

Also, what exactly do you think would have resulted in greater success for the Central Powers in recruiting Poles, Ukrainians, Jews, and Balts in the territories of the Russian Empire?
In WW1 in the era of pan-Slavism and anti-Germanism? Nothing. No one trusted the Germans given when they treated Slavic minorities in their own country and fully expected if they played along they'd be little more than a colonized people. They'd be right too. If the Russians treated them like that and they were their ethnic and religious brothers, what do you think the Germans would do? The Kulturkampf was not necessarily known about in peasant populations, but outsiders speaking a totally different language coming in with guns and promising the moon isn't something to make them particularly trusting their their occupiers when they start demanding recruits for their war and taxes (remember they were trying to strip the east of food as they came too).
https://www.amazon.com/War-Land-Eastern-Front-Occupation/dp/0521023904
 

CaliGuy

Banned
In WW1 in the era of pan-Slavism and anti-Germanism? Nothing. No one trusted the Germans given when they treated Slavic minorities in their own country and fully expected if they played along they'd be little more than a colonized people. They'd be right too. If the Russians treated them like that and they were their ethnic and religious brothers, what do you think the Germans would do? The Kulturkampf was not necessarily known about in peasant populations, but outsiders speaking a totally different language coming in with guns and promising the moon isn't something to make them particularly trusting their their occupiers when they start demanding recruits for their war and taxes (remember they were trying to strip the east of food as they came too).
https://www.amazon.com/War-Land-Eastern-Front-Occupation/dp/0521023904
What if Germany would have treated its own Slavic minorities better in the couple of decades before the start of World War I, though?
 

BooNZ

Banned
What if Germany would have treated its own Slavic minorities better in the couple of decades before the start of World War I, though?
The Poles enjoyed prominent positions in the A-H empire and A-H also had the Red Prince for Ukrainians. However, due to A-H's initial military performance, their influence within CP was seriously undermined.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Got to forget all the stuff they experienced leading up to that point.
Such as?

The Poles enjoyed prominent positions in the A-H empire and A-H also had the Red Prince for Ukrainians. However, due to A-H's initial military performance, their influence within CP was seriously undermined.
Yes; correct!

Also, it would have significantly helped if Germany would have been much less Polonophobic both during the war and in the couple of decades before the start of World War I.
 

CaliGuy

Banned

CaliGuy

Banned
From your own second link:

"Despite the press campaign against Germans, Germanophobic feelings did not develop in Russia to any widespread extent, and died out, due to the Imperial family's German roots and the presence of many German names in the Russian political elite.[2]"

Also, I fail to see how exactly this contradicts anything that I myself wrote here; after all, if Germany is already occupying Poland, it would be able to spread its own propaganda with ease considering that there will no longer be any Russian troops in Poland!
 
The Poles enjoyed prominent positions in the A-H empire and A-H also had the Red Prince for Ukrainians. However, due to A-H's initial military performance, their influence within CP was seriously undermined.

Well, if the "East First" strategy is effective enough that the Russians manage to completely bungle the Galician front, and the plan is sufficiently "Russia First" that Conrad sends her main offensive force towards Russia right off the bat, rather than to the Serbian front (Thereby avoiding that embarrassing flailing about early on), you could end up with Austria's early-war proposition of a Tripartite Empire, with the Polish crown as the third constituency, which in the long terms helps balance out the minority problem by splitting it between three different oppressors (The Germans keeping down the Czechs, Magyars keeping down the Romanians and Serbs, and the Poles keeping down the Ruthenians/Ukranians). That requires A-H to be the main beneficiary of gains in the East (Unlikely if Germany is paying the majority of the blood price in any scenario where Russia isen't doing at least a solid job blunting A-H) and would alienate the Ukrainians. A CP victory scenario doesn't nessicerily have to end in absolute Prusso-German hegemony with the other CP only playing bit parts... though its certainly the most likely)
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Well, if the "East First" strategy is effective enough that the Russians manage to completely bungle the Galician front, and the plan is sufficiently "Russia First" that Conrad sends her main offensive force towards Russia right off the bat, rather than to the Serbian front (Thereby avoiding that embarrassing flailing about early on), you could end up with Austria's early-war proposition of a Tripartite Empire, with the Polish crown as the third constituency, which in the long terms helps balance out the minority problem by splitting it between three different oppressors (The Germans keeping down the Czechs, Magyars keeping down the Romanians and Serbs, and the Poles keeping down the Ruthenians/Ukranians). That requires A-H to be the main beneficiary of gains in the East (Unlikely if Germany is paying the majority of the blood price in any scenario where Russia isen't doing at least a solid job blunting A-H) and would alienate the Ukrainians. A CP victory scenario doesn't nessicerily have to end in absolute Prusso-German hegemony with the other CP only playing bit parts... though its certainly the most likely)
Alienating the Ukrainians would have been an extremely stupid move on the part of the Central Powers, though.
 

Deleted member 1487

From your own second link:

"Despite the press campaign against Germans, Germanophobic feelings did not develop in Russia to any widespread extent, and died out, due to the Imperial family's German roots and the presence of many German names in the Russian political elite.[2]"

Also, I fail to see how exactly this contradicts anything that I myself wrote here; after all, if Germany is already occupying Poland, it would be able to spread its own propaganda with ease considering that there will no longer be any Russian troops in Poland!
Right, it didn't turn into a rabid Nazi-like atmosphere and the royal family wasn't wanting to push it too far given the origins of the Empress and the heir to the throne. Fact is it was still pushed and got much worse during the war to the point that hundreds of thousands of German-Russians were deported to Siberia and all German owned businesses seized during the war. What is 2-3 years under German rule got to result in beyond people thinking 'hey the Germans are trying to tell us something totally different than the Czar. Let's ignore them too'.
 
Top