WIs on Louis XIII and Cardinal Richelieu

Yorel

The duo Louis XIII-Cardinal Richelieu seems to have be a very efficient one when it came to ruling France. I thus wondered what would happen to France in the following scenarios :

1°) Cardinal Richelieu lives up ten years longer : he would thus die when Louis XIV reaches his fourteenth birthday. How would that influence French history? Would there still be the Fronde?

2°) Louis XIII doesn't die in 1643, but lives up to his 60s, which would make him die in the 1660s or so. How would that influence French history, most notably his son's reign?

3°) A combination of both scenario : both Louis XIII and Richelieu live up to their 60s. How would that influence French politics?
 

Gustavus Adolphus

Yorel said:
The duo Louis XIII-Cardinal Richelieu seems to have be a very efficient one when it came to ruling France. I thus wondered what would happen to France in the following scenarios :

1°) Cardinal Richelieu lives up ten years longer : he would thus die when Louis XIV reaches his fourteenth birthday. How would that influence French history? Would there still be the Fronde?

2°) Louis XIII doesn't die in 1643, but lives up to his 60s, which would make him die in the 1660s or so. How would that influence French history, most notably his son's reign?

3°) A combination of both scenario : both Louis XIII and Richelieu live up to their 60s. How would that influence French politics?
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Actually your histories a bit messed up RIchelieu died before Louis was born. He was Louis XIII advisor. Mazarin became the French advisor to Louie. However Mazarin soon fled and Louis assumed full power. Fouquet also was the finance minister who also weilded power before being jailed by Louis.
 
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Yorel

Gustavus Adolphus said:
Actually your histories a bit messed up RIchelieu died before Louis was born. He was Louis XIII advisor. Mazarin became the French advisor to Louie. However Mazarin soon fled and Louis assumed full power. Fouquet also was the finance minister who also weilded power before being jailed by Louis.
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Richelieu died in 1642, aged 57, and Louis XIII died in 1643, aged 42. Louis XIV was born in 1638. Richelieu was thus not dead when the Sun King was born. The Sun King was just very young (4 years old).
As for Mazarin, he never fled. Mazarin died around the time Louis XIV became able to rule by himself.

Maybe I should reformulate my questions : I might not have been very clear.

1°) WI Cardinal Richelieu dies ten years later than OTL? This would make him die in 1652 at age 67. What role would he play during the Regency? While it's true that Anna of Austria (Louis XIII's wife) didn't like the Cardinal very much, I believe he has enough political skills to be in the Regency council for Louis XIV. How would that influence French history? Would there still be the Fronde?

2°) WI Louis XIII doesn't die in 1643 but lives up to his 60s? This would make Louis XIII die in the 1660s. How would Louis XIII's rule look like if it had lasted that long? How would Louis XIV be influenced by the reign of his father?

3°) WI both scenario 1°) and 2°) happen at the same time? How would French history be modified if Louis XIII dies in the 1660s and Cardinal Richelieu in 1652?
 

Doug M.

Richelieu living longer: the last few years of the Thirty Years War are probably going to look rather different. Mazarin's diplomacy was competent but cautious. With Richelieu still alive... I don't know. We could see the war end a bit earlier, or a bit later. I suspect France gets a slightly better deal.

If we're going with the "Richelieu lives, Louis XIII dies as iOTL" variant, then the question of Regency becomes critical. Anne of Austria did indeed hate Richeliu, and if she had power in a Regency she'd scheme against him. OTL she got the _parlement_ to overthrow those parts of the royal will that restricted her power; TTL Richelieu would probably move to block that.

(One interesting consequence: Seguier, who was Richelieu's loyal and effective servant. OTL he switched sides after Richelieu's death to become Anne's bulldog. TTL he'd stay with Richelieu.)

One assumes the Cardinal would take an interest in the Dauphin, Louis XIV-to-be. How this might play out, though, I can't really say. Louis ended up being pretty effective in his own right; it's not clear what additional increment of competence Richelieu's instruction might add.

There's certainly no Fronde in this TL. Richelieu kept the _parlements_ on a very short leash, and they were justifiably terrified of him. Even if they'd mustered the courage to defy him, he'd have seen an insurrection coming and nipped it in the bud.

This gets interesting! The Fronde had a huge impact on France, both good and bad. On one hand, the war with Spain would probably end earlier and/or with even better terms for France -- OTL the Fronde was a huge distraction from prosecuting the war. On the other, the difficult army reforms of the 1650s might not happen, or not as soon.


Doug M.
 

Gustavus Adolphus

Oh I understand what your saying. SrryI should have payed more attentioon. Im not sure if this is true but King Charles had fled to France from Britain, you know the scotsman and he was planning on going back to England, Mazarin was a key asset in Charles downfall, so maybe with Charles still around we may get a restored English monarchy. This is what the book twenty years later by Dimas had on Charles in France
 
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