Winter 1941\42-SU attacked only in the centre of EF

In his memories marshal Zhukov has told, that in his opinion , if soviet troops attacked only central german groups of armies, we would reach smolensk-is it possible?
 
Reaching that far west would leave quite a salient, wouldn't it?

Zhukov might have believed it possible--but did he believe it desirable to have such a bulge into the enemy's line so long before OTL's final Kursk campaign?
 
Reaching that far west would leave quite a salient, wouldn't it?

Zhukov might have believed it possible--but did he believe it desirable to have such a bulge into the enemy's line so long before OTL's final Kursk campaign?

Indeed they'd be pitifully exposed from the south. In the north, taking the Valdai (that is Demjansk) would be critical, otherwise in spring they'd have to withdraw back from Smolsensk to October 1941 positions.
 
Reaching that far west would leave quite a salient, wouldn't it?

Zhukov might have believed it possible--but did he believe it desirable to have such a bulge into the enemy's line so long before OTL's final Kursk campaign?

IN RH RA was near of cutting german troops in Rzhev off their main troops.
 
Indeed they'd be pitifully exposed from the south. In the north, taking the Valdai (that is Demjansk) would be critical, otherwise in spring they'd have to withdraw back from Smolsensk to October 1941 positions.
But RA could defeat german group "Centre"-maybe there wont be german offencive in 1942 in this case.
 
That would be stupid. Instead of an offensive aimed at Stalingrad, there would be an offensive encircling the salient that the Soviets have just created. There is not enough time for the Soviets to build adequate defenses in their salient in time for the coming German spring offensive. I can see the Soviets losing 750,000-1,000,000 men killed or captured. By the time this massive battle is finished it will be too late to attempt a Case Blue on the German's part. The line will therefore remain stagnant throughout 1942. Leningrad can perhaps be taken with much needed German reinforcements which will now be present in the North.

End result: by the end of 1942 the Germans will be in a much better strategic situation then in OTL. The allies seeing this will probably attempt a D-day in early 1943. Depending on whether a beachhead will manage to be stabilized or not, I can see two things happening. If a beachhead is achieved, the Germans will rush forces into France from Russia and create a long drawn out battle for the country. In that case an Atom bomb will probably be dropped on Berlin in 1945, killing Hitler's government and some form of peace will be achieved. If the beachhead fails, then I can see the Allies agreeing to some kind of peace where Norway, France, and the other western European countries gain back their freedom. The end result of this is that the Soviets will be in Berlin by late 1946/early 1947. The allies' disgust of the Germans will prevent them from helping the Germans fight the Soviets.
 
That would be stupid. Instead of an offensive aimed at Stalingrad, there would be an offensive encircling the salient that the Soviets have just created. There is not enough time for the Soviets to build adequate defenses in their salient in time for the coming German spring offensive. I can see the Soviets losing 750,000-1,000,000 men killed or captured. By the time this massive battle is finished it will be too late to attempt a Case Blue on the German's part. The line will therefore remain stagnant throughout 1942. Leningrad can perhaps be taken with much needed German reinforcements which will now be present in the North.

End result: by the end of 1942 the Germans will be in a much better strategic situation then in OTL. The allies seeing this will probably attempt a D-day in early 1943. Depending on whether a beachhead will manage to be stabilized or not, I can see two things happening. If a beachhead is achieved, the Germans will rush forces into France from Russia and create a long drawn out battle for the country. In that case an Atom bomb will probably be dropped on Berlin in 1945, killing Hitler's government and some form of peace will be achieved. If the beachhead fails, then I can see the Allies agreeing to some kind of peace where Norway, France, and the other western European countries gain back their freedom. The end result of this is that the Soviets will be in Berlin by late 1946/early 1947. The allies' disgust of the Germans will prevent them from helping the Germans fight the Soviets.
I thought it is clear, that in 1941\42 Stalingrad was safe
 
I meant that the Germans sending forces North and encircling the Soviets would prevent the the Germans from attempting a Case Blue in mid 1942.
Their troops hasnt enough mobility in winter, and in summer it is heavy to do-in reality iyt would be a very big problem to survive for german troops in the centre
 

Macsporan

Banned
The point

Reaching Smolensk was not relevant: what was was the destruction of the German forces in front of Moscow; at that time just about the whole striking force of the Wehrmacht.

So pitifully unprepared for winter were they that had Zhukov had his way and concentrated all the power of the USSR on them they would have been destroyed.

It is hard to imagine in these circumstances that the subsequent German summer offensive would have got anywhere near Stalingrad: Voronezh if they were lucky.

Failure to follow Zhukov's advice in this matter was a grave error on Stalin's part, and like all Stalin's other errors it cost his people and infinity of suffering.
 
Yeah my point sucked. I made the mistake of not looking at a map and so I had assumed that the Soviets would simply attack on a broad front trying to punch in a salient through German lines.
 
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