Wings of the Free World: What If The Avro Arrow entered service?

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Ming777

Monthly Donor
1) Well, I wasn't sure how was would the OTL production have been. Any Ideas?

2) So 21,000 is around 68,897 feet high. Id say that would be stretching it, but its might still be possible for a one off flight. Same with the speed record. RL-207 may or may not perform that altitude record; if it does, the paints gonna burn off....

3 and 4) The Israelis usually prove quite adept at modifying their aircraft, so they may pioneer a lot of improvements for the Arrow, similar to how they made the Nesher and Kfir iOTL. They will probably fit iron bombs onto the Arrows for the six-day war, similar to how their Mirage IIIs were given a similar treatment. Avro Canada will be paying attention in 1967.
 

Ming777

Monthly Donor
Update Current numbers by December 1962

Avro Canada:
5 Mark 1 Pre-production aircraft
3 Mark 2 Pre-production aircraft

RCAF:

409 Squadron
16 CF-105A
410 Squadron
16 CF-105B
414 Squadron
16 CF-105A
416 Squadron
16 CF-105A
419 Squadron
12 CF-105A
4 CF-105 Mark II pre-production aircraft
(mostly similar to Standard CF-105A)
425 Squadron
12 CF-105B
440 Squadron
12 CF-105AT
4 CF-105A

RAF:
32 Aircraft delivered so far

JASDF:
Awaiting first shipment of 16 Arrows, expected mid 1962-1963

IAF:
Still under negotiations, will likely receive the Arrows of 419 Squadron until they could either license build or purchase newer aircraft.

Hughes Aircraft:
2 Aircraft stripped to make way for experimental radar and new AIM-47 Falcon missiles.
 

Ming777

Monthly Donor
October, 1962

Tensions between the United States and Cuba, an ally of the Soviet Union, leads to a tense confrontation between the two superpowers.

By this point, the pressure from the Liberals and elements from within the minority Progressive-Conservative government forced Diefenbaker to maintain a cordial relationship with the United States. Though Diefenbaker publically continued to delay official adoption of nuclear warheads into his country, his own Minister of National Defense, with his unofficial blessing, permitted the United States Air Force to station a small number of Bomarc missiles in remote areas on Canada. This led to a very minor warming up of relations between Diefenbaker and President John F Kennedy. Both leaders were still cold towards each other, but they still were willing to cooperate on matters related to the military, particularly NORAD.

In the past two years, the Avro Arrow had become well integrated into the joint Canadian-American Air Defense Network. There were quite a number of interceptions of Soviet bombers, particularly by the remaining CF-100s and the newer CF-105B Arrows, which often carried additional fuel and a lighter missile load for the long-distance arctic intercept missions.

On Saturday, October 14, a U-2 spy plane flying over Cuba, located an SS-4 Construction site at San Christobal, western Cuba. The President was informed the next day, and promptly ordered the CIA to relay the information to the Canadian Ministry of National Defense, with a lower priority carbon copy for Diefenbaker.

The Canadian military was informed a few hours ahead of the Prime Minister, with requests not to inform the public. Diefenbaker was more skeptical, but also knew not to inform the public of the Americans' discovery.

On the 18th, POTUS and the Russian Foreign Minister met, with the soviets claiming the missiles were for defensive purposes.

October 19 saw additional U-2 flights reveal four more SS-4 sites on Cuba. At this point, the United States military began to redeploy some forces to Georgia, Florida, and sent B-47 and B-52 bombers to civilian airports. The RCAF was informed by the USAF, leading to a increase of air patrols in the north, with flights of four Arrows rather than the usual pairs.

October 21 saw the US Navy begin a blockade around Cuba, with the Soviets and Americans commencing political games for the next few days.

On October 25, 1962, the American Alert Status for the Strategic Air Command was elevated to DEFCON 2, just one step away from open war. The RCAF was again alerted to the escalation, and ordered all remaining Canuck and Arrow Squadrons onto high alert, with constant air patrols, and the unofficial loading of AIR-2 Genie rockets onto the Arrows. All Canadian Genie rockets were American units that were "mysteriously lost" whenever American Voodoos loaded with the rockets came around to Cold Lake or Bagotville.

Diefenbaker was furious with the evident snub by President Kennedy, though he reluctantly ordered the military into high alert as posturing from the opposition party leaders.

Fortunately, the crisis was averted via more political dealings between the superpowers. Through it all, Canada maintained the airspace over Northern Canada. Many Canadians saw the actions of President Kennedy as correct, much to the dismay of Diefenbaker.
 
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Ming777

Monthly Donor
Consequences of the Arrow

With the still enormous costs in procuring the Arrow, the RCAF had to face the consequences of buying the plane for ill or good. The project aimed to replace the now-obsolescent Canadair Sabres had been stalled numerous times, and with the budget in mind, the replacement process was bound to end up with a low-performance aircraft.

One of the options was either buying or purchase the license to build the cheap Northrop F-5, a small dogfighting aircraft designed for use by second and third world states. It was a rather crappy tinkertoy, and would have been rejected if it wasn't for the rather tight budget the RCAF had. Other competitors were not much better, among them the expensive and rumored "accident waiting to happen" F-104 Starfighter, a small interceptor currently under evaluation by a number of states. However, a number of those states were now considering the Arrow, especially more wealthier nations such as Germany, with Japan already picking the Arrow over the "Lawn Dart".

The replacement program will undergo a few more delays until at least 1965.
 

Ming777

Monthly Donor
1963
The Year was marked by a Change of Government, the sudden and shocking death of a President and even more orders for the Avro Arrow.

The Avro Arrow was being produced at full speed, with the Malton Facility being dramatic expanded in the past ten years. January saw the 16 Avro Arrows of 409 Squadron traded for new CF-105B Arrows. The 16 CF-105As were being partially retrofitted with increased fuel capacity and some of the easier improvements featured in the B model. These arrows were being earmarked as a stopgap for the next customers, the RSAF. These will be the first arrows used by the Saudis until more CF-105Bs are completed. This was preceded by the four Canadian-Built CF-105B Arrows being delivered to the JASDF. Mitsubishi finally finished negotiations with Avro Canada over commission and permission to build additional aircraft as necessary.

This year saw the first British Built Arrows be delivered to the RAF. Avro Aircraft, the parent company of Avro Canada, finally got the tooling and some of the engineers from their subsidiary into the UK last year, and were now building the Arrow for the RAF, providing a small amount of commission to its subsidary. Avro Aircraft's parent company, Hawker Siddely, will likely keep the Avro name for a few more years.

EDITe: Corrected. Thanks Russell
 
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Ming777

Monthly Donor
April 8, 1963

After a rather rough 6 years in power, the Diefenbaker Government lost to the Liberals led by Lester B. Pearson.

Liberal Party- 128 Seats
Progressive Conservatives- 96 Seats
CCF Party- 23 Seats
Social Credit- 17 Seats

With that, Pearson made the controversial move to offically adopt Genie Rockets from the USAF; in reality, the RCAF already possessed the nuclear rockets since two years ago.

He was now starting a memorable part of Canadian political history, with the government intending to make many landmark programs, bills, and the adoption of a permanent, official flag of Canada.
 
Edited it. Thanks!

No worries. I was actually thinking that you could get Avro Canada could perhaps support a buy out of AVRO in general, forming a transatlantic air corporation that evolves along the lines of bombadier today?

Russell
 

Ming777

Monthly Donor
Perhaps, maybe during the 70s.

Well, any suggestions on how to improve the Arrows in the future?
 

Ming777

Monthly Donor
Here is a write up on the space race, mainly from the North American Side.

In 1957, the USSR Launched Sputnik 1, kicking off the space race. In OTL, many of the original engineers at NASA were formerly from Canada and were part of the Brain Drain caused by the cancellation of the Arrow.

In this timeline, the continuation of the Avro Arrow meant that NASA did not recieve this influx of engineers. As a result, the need for technical expertise led to the NACA, and later NASA, creating a partnership with Avro Canada, Canadair, and several British aerospace firms. At this point, the Canadian and British Governments formed the Royal Space Agency and the Royal Canadian Space Agency, respectively. Due to the expenses involved in such programs, the three agencies pooled resources and expertise into a partnership known as the Joint Aeronautics Space Program. This led to the launch of Explorer 1 in early 1958. The rocket used was called Juno I; it was a converted Jupiter-C, itself a modified Redstone ICBM.
over the next five years, the Soviet Union and the three nations continued to develop their programs. In JASP, the Americans provided much of the funding and materiel for the spacecraft; the British and Canadians provided technical expertise, some funding, and also aviators, scientists, and other specialists for later manned flights. By May 1963, the joint manned Mercury Program was concluded with the launch of Mercury-Atlas 9, which carried RCAF Group Captain Martin Rousseau, an Avro Arrow pilot, from Cape Canaveral, Florida.
 
A joint Canada-USA space program. I approve. I VERY approve. :D

Here's an idea, take it if you wish: Perhaps when Lockheed nearly bites it in the early 70s, Avro Canada buys a lump of it, and Orenda builds an incredible engine for it, allowing the L-1011's successor to grab a substantial share of the world's airliner markets and in the process make Canada's aerospace industry that much bigger. Orenda develops an improved an improved version of RB211, which allows for a bigger L-1011 variant, which cuts the legs out from under the DC-10 and fully establishes the L-1011 as a major player in the world of airliners.

Orenda ultimately buys Rolls-Royce outright in 1976, and as a result is a major player in the development of multiple aero engines, and its involvement ultimately secures the involvement of Canada in the Panavia Tornado project, which leads to 165 Tornados being delivered to Canada between 1981 and 1986. Avro Canada buys the nearly-bankrupt Lockheed outright in 1980, keeping it as the US division of the company.

In 1976, Canadair is bought from General Dynamics by the Canadian government, but is sold back to Bombardier in 1984. Bombardier turns Canadair around, and in 1989 they buy the Short Brothers company in Northern Ireland followed by the bankrupt Dutch Fokker company in 1996. Avro Canada, Lockheed and Martin Marietta merge in 1995 into North American Avro Aerospace, making the Toronto-based firm becoming one of the largest aerospace companies and defense contractors in the world.

By 2010, North American Avro and Bombardier Aerospace are two of the largest aerospace companies in the world, providing the core of a large high-tech industrial complex in Canada. North American Avro is the world's third-largest airliner builder, with Bombardier in fourth place.
 

Ming777

Monthly Donor
Perhaps something like that will come about, though it will take a while before that happens.

Lockheed will likely fold, especially as a number of the major buyers of the lawn dart chose the Arrow instead.
 
Perhaps, maybe during the 70s.

Well, any suggestions on how to improve the Arrows in the future?

Push the development of a reliable long range fire and forget air to air weapon that the Arrow can launch from it's internal weapons bay, push the development of a long range fire and forget air to surface weapon that can be launched from the internal weapons bay. Push the development of reliable tactical data links that allow one air craft to find targets for several others. Push the development of an effective long range multi mode radar for the Arrow. Push ECM developments and upgrade the engines so sustained super sonic cruise is possible on internal fuel. Essentially turn the arrow into a high performance platform for launching stand off weapons. (Ie. an Arrow with AIM 120's, data link, a modern radar, super cruise and state of the art ECM.)

For roles other than intercepting bombers or possibly dropping nukes, the Arrow is going to need these to be effective in the long term IMHO.

:)
 

Ming777

Monthly Donor
Plausibility Check

One thing I may have is the USAF covertly operating a number of heavily modified CF-105s as long ranged armed reconnaissance back-ups to the SR-71. Armed with a couple of long ranged fire and forget missiles, wet wings and improved engines could turn the aircraft into a more long ranged high-speed aircraft, perfect for more tactical reconnaissance.
 
One thing I may have is the USAF covertly operating a number of heavily modified CF-105s as long ranged armed reconnaissance back-ups to the SR-71. Armed with a couple of long ranged fire and forget missiles, wet wings and improved engines could turn the aircraft into a more long ranged high-speed aircraft, perfect for more tactical reconnaissance.

This seems ok to me, the air to air missiles, would they be the AIM-54 Phoenix or the AIM-7 Sparrow, though the Phoenix would be the better choice?

Looking forward to the next part :)
 

Ak-84

Banned
Good things thus far.
Pakistan would also attempt to purchase the Avro Arrow if not before 1965 (the war with India) then definatly 1971 (the war with India).

It would still be in service in the 1980's,Afghan WAr and see action in the border clashes that took place, where OTL the Mirage III did take part.

So three wars 1965, 1971 and 1980's.
 
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