William IV of Britain's daughter Elizabeth survives.

Interesting, why the abundance of Princesses if I might ask? And, I agree, I also think Maria Anna would likely not instill the sense of duty before all else in Franz that crippled him during his reign.

No thought out reason. When I role for pregnancies I use a random number picker to see if the kid survives (I read somewhere infant mortality in this period was 1:5 so I have the computer pick a number 1-1000 and if it's under 200 the kid dies in childhood, over it survives) and a random gender picker to determine if it's a boy or girl. This way I can keep it somewhat random and objective. For that particular set, I just kept getting high numbers (indicating survival) and the gender picker kept picking girl.
 
Which British princess would have been betrothed to Prince Carl of Norway?

unsure, will need to look through my notes again.

No thought out reason. When I role for pregnancies I use a random number picker to see if the kid survives (I read somewhere infant mortality in this period was 1:5 so I have the computer pick a number 1-1000 and if it's under 200 the kid dies in childhood, over it survives) and a random gender picker to determine if it's a boy or girl. This way I can keep it somewhat random and objective. For that particular set, I just kept getting high numbers (indicating survival) and the gender picker kept picking girl.

Fair play, that's definitely going to cause some nerves in Hofburg. I do think Franz should inherit straight from his Uncle Ferdinand.
 
Fair enough. If his elder brother is born in '41, and his sister in '42, then perhaps Carl is born as the youngest child in '46?

For a bride, perhaps Sophia born 1848

Alongside family trees for Britain and France:

Elizabeth II of United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland (b.1820: d. 1892) m Henry William, King Consort and Duke of Gloucester and Edinburgh (b.1817: d. 1892)

Issue:

William V of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland (b. 1840)

Adelaide, Princess Royal (b.1841)

Frederick William, Duke of York and Albany (b. 1844)

Sophia (b. 1848)

Henry William, Duke of Clarence and St Andrews (b. 1855)

Like otl Edward VII, William V would have a brief tenure in the armed forces, never actually actively, serving. He would however unlike Edward, be a lot more studious and less philandering, working hard, and learning his duties. A decent politician, but slightly dour of humour.

His brother Frederick, would join the Army, at his father's insistence. And would rise to the rank of Field Marshal after a long and good career. He'd be the opposite to his brother, a bit of a womaniser, cheery, jovial and a natural born leader.

Henry William, would enter the navy and be a rise to be an Admiral of the Fleet, he'd spearhead reforms that would improve Britain's naval performance toward the end of the century.

Adelaide, Princess Royal would be like a combination of her mother and father, hard working, but also cheery and a bit of a flirt.

Princess Sophia, would be shy, fiercely so. But also very prideful.
 
For a bride, perhaps Sophia born 1848

Alongside family trees for Britain and France:

Elizabeth II of United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland (b.1820: d. 1892) m Henry William, King Consort and Duke of Gloucester and Edinburgh (b.1817: d. 1892)

Issue:

William V of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland (b. 1840)

Adelaide, Princess Royal (b.1841)

Frederick William, Duke of York and Albany (b. 1844)

Sophia (b. 1848)

Henry William, Duke of Clarence and St Andrews (b. 1855)

Like otl Edward VII, William V would have a brief tenure in the armed forces, never actually actively, serving. He would however unlike Edward, be a lot more studious and less philandering, working hard, and learning his duties. A decent politician, but slightly dour of humour.

His brother Frederick, would join the Army, at his father's insistence. And would rise to the rank of Field Marshal after a long and good career. He'd be the opposite to his brother, a bit of a womaniser, cheery, jovial and a natural born leader.

Henry William, would enter the navy and be a rise to be an Admiral of the Fleet, he'd spearhead reforms that would improve Britain's naval performance toward the end of the century.

Adelaide, Princess Royal would be like a combination of her mother and father, hard working, but also cheery and a bit of a flirt.

Princess Sophia, would be shy, fiercely so. But also very prideful.

Because we only have two British princesses up for grab in Adelaide and Sophia, we might need to move into proxy princesses, whether it be the Cambridge cousins or even Victoria's children. That might be where they earn their salt in the marriage market, particularly if the elder children are raised in the UK. I could see the top 2 contenders (Prussia and one of the Scandinavian monarchies) getting Liz's daughters and the other players get one of the Coburg girls or a Cambridge princess as a consolation prize
 
Because we only have two British princesses up for grab in Adelaide and Sophia, we might need to move into proxy princesses, whether it be the Cambridge cousins or even Victoria's children. That might be where they earn their salt in the marriage market, particularly if the elder children are raised in the UK. I could see the top 2 contenders (Prussia and one of the Scandinavian monarchies) getting Liz's daughters and the other players get one of the Coburg girls or a Cambridge princess as a consolation prize

Hmm perhaps Victoria, Princess Royal of otl could marry Carl Magnus of Norway, and Adelaide could marry otl Frederick III?
 
So queries what roles could we expect the Orleans to play when the mainline bourbons are still about. And what role would Carlos count of moliba play in his nephews reign given he didn't have an active part in his brother's?
 
If we agree the Swiss monarchy is not happening (and if it does it'll be a blip in the pan where the candidate is swiftly asked to go home) the next question is what happens to Austria.

Emperor Ferdinand isn't having kids (he had seizures which apparently prevented him from having sex) meaning the next emperor is either Franz Karl (maybe he doesn't abdicate ITTL) or an Alt. Franz Josef (given Franz Josef was born after the POD). Given their marriage was after the POD it's possible Franz Karl doesn't even marry Sophie (maybe ITTL the betrothals for Sophie and her twin Marie Anne are switched?) Now Marie Anne didn't have any children IOTL but whether that was her, her husband (who produced only one bastard despite 2 marriages), or bad luck is anyone's guess. Still butterflies abound.
Potential kid list for Maria Anna and Franz Karl
  1. Archduchess Maria Anna b. 1826
  2. Archduchess Maria Theresia b.1827
  3. Archduke Franz Josef b. 1830
  4. Archduchess Maria Carolina b. 1833
  5. Archduchess Maria Sophia b. 1836
  6. Archduchess Maria Louisa b.1842
Obviously here the succession is more precarious, given Franz Josef is the only boy, and gets married asap (while there was also pressure to get Franz Josef married off IOTL, this will be even greater without 3 younger brothers to secure the throne). Also, Maria Anna seems like a less ambitious and controlling personality than her twin Sophie (although how much of that would change with her having children, particularly a son who will likely inherit Austria from his father or uncle, is anyone's guess). Maybe she gets along better with her future daughter-in-law and facilitates a better family environment then that between Sophie, OTL Franz Josef, and Sissi? Also, with her daughters surviving childhood, it will be interesting to see what matches the Archduchesses make. Going off already established royal ideas, the Archduchess will at least be in consideration for Miguel of Portugal (although maybe a bit too young), Joao of Brazil, Ferdinand of Spain, and the heir to whoever gets Belgium.
Austrain succession will still be fine because Franz I had a lot of brothers and while the eldest of them, Ferdinand III of Tuscany, had only one son who maybe will decide to renounce to Vienna and stay in Tuscany) the others, aka Archdukes Karl, Joseph and Rainer had all sons so the succession is pretty sure
 
Austrain succession will still be fine because Franz I had a lot of brothers and while the eldest of them, Ferdinand III of Tuscany, had only one son who maybe will decide to renounce to Vienna and stay in Tuscany) the others, aka Archdukes Karl, Joseph and Rainer had all sons so the succession is pretty sure
agreed
 
Austrain succession will still be fine because Franz I had a lot of brothers and while the eldest of them, Ferdinand III of Tuscany, had only one son who maybe will decide to renounce to Vienna and stay in Tuscany) the others, aka Archdukes Karl, Joseph and Rainer had all sons so the succession is pretty sure
I can still see Maria Anna looking for a Bavarian marriage for her son, or a tie with Saxony or Portugal
 
So queries what roles could we expect the Orleans to play when the mainline bourbons are still about. And what role would Carlos count of moliba play in his nephews reign given he didn't have an active part in his brother's?

Maybe an ambitious Orleans child tries to marry themselves up by wedding one of the French princesses, particularly as there might be more Catholic princesses then there are Catholic princes of note, causing one of the girls to seek a domestic match?

Austrain succession will still be fine because Franz I had a lot of brothers and while the eldest of them, Ferdinand III of Tuscany, had only one son who maybe will decide to renounce to Vienna and stay in Tuscany) the others, aka Archdukes Karl, Joseph and Rainer had all sons so the succession is pretty sure

Agree, however, I can believe the court will still want him to marry sooner rather than later, as they did IOTL even when he had several younger brothers. Ideally, they'd get to use the Archdukes in other ventures. Maybe a distant cousin gets the offer of a New World throne ala Maximillian in Mexico (for all the trouble it caused)?
 
Maybe an ambitious Orleans child tries to marry themselves up by wedding one of the French princesses, particularly as there might be more Catholic princesses then there are Catholic princes of note, causing one of the girls to seek a domestic match?



Agree, however, I can believe the court will still want him to marry sooner rather than later, as they did IOTL even when he had several younger brothers. Ideally, they'd get to use the Archdukes in other ventures. Maybe a distant cousin gets the offer of a New World throne ala Maximillian in Mexico (for all the trouble it caused)?

Agreed with the Orleans, as part of the reconciliation between the families.

Definitely, would sissi still be pushed? If so seeing the two of them actually work together would be good
 
I can still see Maria Anna looking for a Bavarian marriage for her son, or a tie with Saxony or Portugal

Portugal is out as it won't have many options. Maria and the Brazilian girls are all too old unless we have Pedro I remarry and produce extra daughters for the marriage market and Uncle Miguel didn't marry until the 1850s IOTL.

As for Saxony, the obvious choice would be a child between Maria Anna's OTL husband Frederick Augustus and her twin Sophie, however, two OTL marriages only produced one bastard, so Frederick Augustus's fertility is suspect (or if he'll have any luck with Sophie, who was Maria Anna's identical twin). Other than that we have the descendants of another one of Maria Anna's sisters, Amalie Auguste, whose daughter Maria Elisabeth or a surviving Maria Sidonia (or an ATL sister of the girls) would be the right age for Franz Josef.

In Bavaria, the obvious options are Nene and Sissi other than that you're likely going through descendants of the many sisters of Maria Anna which would include an Alt. Maria Amelia of Brazil.
 
Portugal is out as it won't have many options. Maria and the Brazilian girls are all too old unless we have Pedro I remarry and produce extra daughters for the marriage market and Uncle Miguel didn't marry until the 1850s IOTL.

As for Saxony, the obvious choice would be a child between Maria Anna's OTL husband Frederick Augustus and her twin Sophie, however, two OTL marriages only produced one bastard, so Frederick Augustus's fertility is suspect (or if he'll have any luck with Sophie, who was Maria Anna's identical twin). Other than that we have the descendants of another one of Maria Anna's sisters, Amalie Auguste, whose daughter Maria Elisabeth or a surviving Maria Sidonia (or an ATL sister of the girls) would be the right age for Franz Josef.

In Bavaria, the obvious options are Nene and Sissi other than that you're likely going through descendants of the many sisters of Maria Anna which would include an Alt. Maria Amelia of Brazil.

Hmm this is true, I think perhaps seeing sissi and this alt franz Josef develop a proper working snd loving relationship would be good, without Sophie’s overbearing influence, franz is likely to be far more balanced
 
Belgian independence war 1830-1838, attempted negotiations, failed, orposal of the Talleyrand plan again, then another war? Sound decent?
 
Portugal is out as it won't have many options. Maria and the Brazilian girls are all too old unless we have Pedro I remarry and produce extra daughters for the marriage market and Uncle Miguel didn't marry until the 1850s IOTL.

As for Saxony, the obvious choice would be a child between Maria Anna's OTL husband Frederick Augustus and her twin Sophie, however, two OTL marriages only produced one bastard, so Frederick Augustus's fertility is suspect (or if he'll have any luck with Sophie, who was Maria Anna's identical twin). Other than that we have the descendants of another one of Maria Anna's sisters, Amalie Auguste, whose daughter Maria Elisabeth or a surviving Maria Sidonia (or an ATL sister of the girls) would be the right age for Franz Josef.

In Bavaria, the obvious options are Nene and Sissi other than that you're likely going through descendants of the many sisters of Maria Anna which would include an Alt. Maria Amelia of Brazil.
In Bavaria the only logical option is Helene. Elisabeth was too young and too wild for the Imperial Court and nobody in his right mind would have suggested her (OTL she was Franz's choice but not a candidate for the role of Empress)
 
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