William IV of Britain's daughter Elizabeth survives.

Adelaide would certainly be a good match for fritz
About the Sons of Vitoria and Alberto =
1- Victoria - Alberto da Prussia in 1859
2 - Alberto Eduardo - As heir to a dukedom certainly the pressure to marry would be lower and certainly his marriage would be postponed for later - The best candidates from my point of view would be Louise of Sweden in 1869 or Alexandrine of Prussia in 1865
3 - Alice - I think we could keep it with Louis of Hesse in 1862
4 - Alfredo - I believe that someone like Helen of Mecklenburg Strelitz in 1877 or Maria Elisabeth of Saxe Meiningen in 1873
5 - Helena - A good match would be Augustus of Sweden between 1864 and 1866
6 - Louise - I believe that someone like Alexandre Petrovich of Oldenburg or Ernest of Cumberland between 1867-1869
7 - Arthur - I believe that Louise of Schleswig Holstein in 1880 or Augusta Vitoria of Schleswig Holstein in 1881
8 - Leopold - I believe that I would have died before marrying, since I would have been only a minor prince of Saxon Gotha, and the concern to contract a marriage would be minimal - in any case a marriage with Carolina Mathilda of Schleswig Holstein between 1883 and 1885 would have been a good match
9 - Beatrice - Certainly his second cousin Adolf Frederick of Mecklenburg Strelitz between 1875 and 1879

About Dagmar there are several candidates but for me the most attractive would be Humberto da Itália and Guilherme de Orange between 1865-1867
Beatrice is marrying the duke of Clarence
 
I am currently fleshing out Leopold/George of Greece and his family/reign - did we settle on a Russian or a French bride, or just that it would be one or the other after the negotiations to get him the throne?
I think we agreed it’d be decided after he got the throne
 
I think we agreed it’d be decided after he got the throne

Oh, I meant - that we hadn't settled on a Russian or French match, but that it would be one or the other as consolation for their candidates not being picked.

I was thinking that with the other being the default line of succession should Leopold not produce heirs.

So -

Leopold becomes King of Greece as the British candidate, therefore the French and Russians demand that his bride must be French or Russian.

Leopold/George still marries Marie of Orleans, so the Russians are left out and therefore Otto - the Russian candidate for King of Greece - would be the default line of succession should Leopold/Marie fail to produce heirs.

Perhaps he is given a conciliatory title such as Grand Duke of the Peleponnese, or some such given the Greek Heir Apparent is simply the Crown Prince?

If that makes sense?
 
Last edited:
Oh, I meant - that we hadn't settled on a Russian or French match, but that it would be one or the other as consolation for their candidates not being picked.

I was thinking that with the other being the default line of succession should Leopold not produce heirs.

So -

Leopold becomes King of Greece as the British candidate, therefore the French and Russians demand that his bride must be French or Russian.

Leopold/George still marries Marie of Orleans, so the Russians are left out and therefore Otto - the Russian candidate for King of Greece - would be the default line of succession should Leopold/Marie fail to produce heirs.

Perhaps he is given a conciliatory title such as Grand Duke of the Peleponnese, or some such given the Greek Heir Apparent is simply the Crown Prince?

If that makes sense?

Oh I get you, yeah the Greeks would need to amend their constitution as I don’t think they allowed duchies for their princes aha
 
I think leopold will be mightily relieved when he learns of the European war that’s broken out over Belgium. He’s missed a shit storm
 
Oh I get you, yeah the Greeks would need to amend their constitution as I don’t think they allowed duchies for their princes aha

I think the Grand Duchy of the Peleponnese (or whatever we use) would be a unique title drafted in the Treaty of London to distinguish the designated secondary line.

As such his children would be 'of the Peleponese' with the senior male always being the Grand Duke and the second male as simple Duke - and all subsequent simply being ' of the ...'

Leopold of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha / King George I of Greece
m. Louise-Marie of Orleans / Queen Marie of Greece

Issue:

1 - Crown Prince Constantine of Greece (later, King Constantine of Greece)
2 - Prince Leopold of Greece
3 - Prince Philip of Greece
4 - Princess Charlotte of Greece

Prince Otto of Bavaria / Grand Duke Otto of the Peleponnese
m. Amalia of Oldenburg / Grand Duchess Amalia of the Peleponnese

Issue:

1 - Duke Ludwig of the Peleponnese
2 - Adalbert of the Peleponnese
3 - Mathilde of the Peleponnese

* - Mathilde and Charlotte's children would then drop the 'of ...' designation which would continue through the male line only as both Russia and France followed Salic law of some form or other.
 
I think the Grand Duchy of the Peleponnese (or whatever we use) would be a unique title drafted in the Treaty of London to distinguish the designated secondary line.

As such his children would be 'of the Peleponese' with the senior male always being the Grand Duke and the second male as simple Duke - and all subsequent simply being ' of the ...'

Leopold of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha / King George I of Greece
m. Louise-Marie of Orleans / Queen Marie of Greece

Issue:

1 - Crown Prince Constantine of Greece (later, King Constantine of Greece)
2 - Prince Leopold of Greece
3 - Prince Philip of Greece
4 - Princess Charlotte of Greece

Prince Otto of Bavaria / Grand Duke Otto of the Peleponnese
m. Amalia of Oldenburg / Grand Duchess Amalia of the Peleponnese

Issue:

1 - Duke Ludwig of the Peleponnese
2 - Adalbert of the Peleponnese
3 - Mathilde of the Peleponnese

* - Mathilde and Charlotte's children would then drop the 'of ...' designation which would continue through the male line only as both Russia and France followed Salic law of some form or other.
Interesting would ottos presence in Greece cause tension do you think? I'm thinking Bavaria missing out on land during the scramble for Belgium woul push them toward Austria and away from Prussia and France
 
It might - it would probably factor into the situation in the Crimea, and if he does produce heirs with Amalia that would give any pushing back against Leopold a possible figurehead.
 
It might - it would probably factor into the situation in the Crimea, and if he does produce heirs with Amalia that would give any pushing back against Leopold a possible figurehead.
This is very truem would the allies want such a complication in Greece?
 
So, any other thoughts re this?

I know that the crown will retain the ability to appoint a ministry contrary to the will of Parliament, and that they will be able to dismiss individual ministers.
 
So, any other thoughts re this?

I know that the crown will retain the ability to appoint a ministry contrary to the will of Parliament, and that they will be able to dismiss individual ministers.

Would they dare though? Might be interesting to see a democratically elected Prime Minister push their remit until Lizzie has to stand on her principle and dismiss their ministry?

Perhaps something similar to IRL Lizzie asking Churchill to resign because of escalating issues?
 
Would they dare though? Might be interesting to see a democratically elected Prime Minister push their remit until Lizzie has to stand on her principle and dismiss their ministry?

Perhaps something similar to IRL Lizzie asking Churchill to resign because of escalating issues?

I think the latest this can happen is Liz's reign to be cemented. Had William IV encouraged Peel to stand his ground, or had Peel not resigned when a vote of no confidence came, things could've been cemented. It was only under Victoria and Melbourne's influence that the crown became purely ceremonially, and that was because Victoria didn't actually know she retained vast power to dismiss ministers and influence Parliament. She eventually realised this in the 1850s, but came up against a brick wall with Palmerston.
 
So who do people think Charles x of frances kids could marry. Here’s the list, Charles x being the duke of Berry

Charles X of France (b.1778: d. 1846) m Marie Caroline of Naples and Sicily (b.1798)

Issue:

Louise Marie, Princess of France (b.1819)

Henri V of France (b. 1820)

Louis, Duke of Bordeaux (b. 1822)

Maria Clementina of France (b.1825)

Maria Theresa of France (b.1828)

Charles, Duke of Angouleme (b. 1831)

Louise Elisabeth (b.1834)
 
So who do people think Charles x of frances kids could marry. Here’s the list, Charles x being the duke of Berry

Charles X of France (b.1778: d. 1846) m Marie Caroline of Naples and Sicily (b.1798)

Issue:

Louise Marie, Princess of France (b.1819)

Henri V of France (b. 1820)

Louis, Duke of Bordeaux (b. 1822)

Maria Clementina of France (b.1825)

Maria Theresa of France (b.1828)

Charles, Duke of Angouleme (b. 1831)

Louise Elisabeth (b.1834)

I've got a Greek Crown Prince going spare if Louise could be convinced.
 
I've been thinking about this and I'm not sure if Otto would be given anything g in Greece. Surely that would simply destabilise the country more ?
 
I've been thinking about this and I'm not sure if Otto would be given anything g in Greece. Surely that would simply destabilise the country more ?

The real world Greek agreement had the Crown going to Ottos younger (but not his older) siblings and their lines in the event Otto failed to produce issue.

Leopold is the youngest of his family - would the line devolve to his elder brothers in the event of his lack of issue? This would mean Albert and Ernest as being third and fourth in the line of Greek succession at the point of Leopolds Greek coronation.

Ultimately for the timeline, it's irrelevant as we know Leopold has issue and his line continues to the present. But the Convention of London in 1830 wouldn't have known that - so a designated contingency would be required.

If Otto isn't given a consolation prize of a Grand Duchy - would that leave the Russians a bit miffed and could this then be what triggers the Prince of Wales being promised to a Russian princess, or one being betrothed to George of Kent/Hanover?

Do we then shift the Grand Duchies to Leopolds elder brothers Ferdinand and Ernst?
 
The real world Greek agreement had the Crown going to Ottos younger (but not his older) siblings and their lines in the event Otto failed to produce issue.

Leopold is the youngest of his family - would the line devolve to his elder brothers in the event of his lack of issue? This would mean Albert and Ernest as being third and fourth in the line of Greek succession at the point of Leopolds Greek coronation.

Ultimately for the timeline, it's irrelevant as we know Leopold has issue and his line continues to the present. But the Convention of London in 1830 wouldn't have known that - so a designated contingency would be required.

If Otto isn't given a consolation prize of a Grand Duchy - would that leave the Russians a bit miffed and could this then be what triggers the Prince of Wales being promised to a Russian princess, or one being betrothed to George of Kent/Hanover?

Do we then shift the Grand Duchies to Leopolds elder brothers Ferdinand and Ernst?
Hmm, think given the London’s convention and paranoia over whether Greece could be sustained if it had two actual rivals for the throne living there, either they’re going to have Otto be heir until leopold has kids but keep under Leopoldo supervision, or they’d name his brothers one of them as heir
 
Top