WI: Zoroastrian Australia

The Zoroastrian religion is fairly cool but in our reality they practically got stomped by Islam and while they still exist they lost their status as a world religion, so how plausible is a Zoroastrian colony of Australia and how will it develop over the centuries, for example, how do they interact with the Aborigines, do they become a member of the Indian Ocean trade and how do they react to European expeditions in the area.

POD begins in 700
 
Maybe some isolationist minded Zorastrians learn about Australia? Maybe some of them have been on voyage and spotted Australia on that voyage? If a group of Zorastrians then decide to set sail for Australia and settle there. Zorastrian settlements would likely hug the coast and spread. The Zorastrians would have technological edge over the Aborigines. Later as more learn about Australia there might be a influx of non-Zorastrians.
 

Albert.Nik

Banned
Zoroastrianism like many other Non-European as prevalent in our timeline was very ethnocentric and hierarchical which means that until a massive reform is done to spread to a large areas like Christianity and Islam did in OTL. Zoroastrianism might have been a bit more accepting and liberal but like it's Indo-Iranian sibling,Hinduism,and its semitic good neighbour,Judaism it too remained very ethnocentric and birth based. I would see it being reformed and spread out if it got an opportunity to do so. But Zoroastrianism always became a scapegoat as Iranian empires were routed both in Central Asia and India. The ones who later emigrated to India were very ethnicity conscious and still are though now they are modernizing after 200+ years of Western influences. In this ATL,if they settle in Australia without being attacked by any European colonists,I would see two timelines.
Timeline 1:
Zoroastrians settle in Australia and establish a permanent sustaining settlement and because of hospitable conditions for Agriculture and Empire growth,they would increase in population like how Irish people multiplied in the New World to become 10 times their population in their Celtic Homelands and also the German American population in USA numbering almost equal or more than the population in today's Germany. This is very difficult as Zoroastrians were far lesser than these people and unlike Europe,they were reluctant to accept assimilated people. So it's very difficult for these people to succeed to the same magnitude of the Germanic, Romance,Slavic and also Celtic people to make a lasting mark on the World. If they breed sustainability without causing a genetic inbreeding disaster,they would be successful in creating Zoroastrian nation and the people would be more confident than in OTL and this then ethnic faith would again like in the time of its birth turn into a missionary faith like branches of Hinduism were formed during the British Rule because of the confidence of the Indian Hindus by interacting well with British colonizers. Continuing with Zoroastrian Australia,the faith is also a very rational faith and access to this magnitude of resources would mean they would advance in Science quickly and become a large superpower with a good population almost equal to USA. Their Business accumen would build great business empires and probably the richest nations Humans have seen as USA in OTL but even bigger. They bring India,SE Asia under influence and then prosper and prosper and so would the rest of the World!
Timeline 2:
They would go and establish a small settlements there and eventually,will be assimilated into the next English and European colonizers living in the segment of the present day population only in the form of dark hair/eyes,light tan and some characterisric features of the Iranian race.
 

Albert.Nik

Banned
If earlier empire is started in such places at 700 AD and like that,they might eventually become very powerful there and Probably persianizing the neighborhood in places like Malaysia and Indonesia or even upto their once dreamt Indian subcontinent. Persians were very intelligent and far sighted and wouldn't leave an opportunity.
 
The Zoroastrian religion is fairly cool but in our reality they practically got stomped by Islam and while they still exist they lost their status as a world religion, so how plausible is a Zoroastrian colony of Australia and how will it develop over the centuries, for example, how do they interact with the Aborigines, do they become a member of the Indian Ocean trade and how do they react to European expeditions in the area.

POD begins in 700

At 700 AD the Zoroastrians are well into the process of being subjugated by various Islamic faiths, so a colony in Australia is practically nil. Even if they knew about Australia, there would be no reason to go there since it offers very little compared to settling in India.

Zoroastrians settle in Australia and establish a permanent sustaining settlement and because of hospitable conditions for Agriculture and Empire growth,they would increase in population like how Irish people multiplied in the New World to become 10 times their population in their Celtic Homelands and also the German American population in USA numbering almost equal or more than the population in today's Germany. This is very difficult as Zoroastrians were far lesser than these people and unlike Europe,they were reluctant to accept assimilated people. So it's very difficult for these people to succeed to the same magnitude of the Germanic, Romance,Slavic and also Celtic people to make a lasting mark on the World. If they breed sustainability without causing a genetic inbreeding disaster,they would be successful in creating Zoroastrian nation and the people would be more confident than in OTL and this then ethnic faith would again like in the time of its birth turn into a missionary faith like branches of Hinduism were formed during the British Rule because of the confidence of the Indian Hindus by interacting well with British colonizers. Continuing with Zoroastrian Australia,the faith is also a very rational faith and access to this magnitude of resources would mean they would advance in Science quickly and become a large superpower with a good population almost equal to USA. Their Business accumen would build great business empires and probably the richest nations Humans have seen as USA in OTL but even bigger. They bring India,SE Asia under influence and then prosper and prosper and so would the rest of the World!

Australia is not a very hospitable place, especially not the only part of the continent known for centuries, Western Australia, with its deserts and savannas. Agriculture is barely possible in that environment, so the population would remain small.

Also, "reluctant to accept assimilated people", what is that supposed to mean? I'm pretty sure assimilating people isn't related in the slightest to any nation's success on the global stage, except for maybe post-colonial nations like the United States. This country would have nothing to do with nations like the US or Canada or OTL Australia. And I'm also pretty sure that Zoroastrians could and did assimilate other groups, given Persia's history. A lot of Persian culture later carried over to Islam and assimilated other groups (i.e. Turks) too.

Zoroastrians have no inherent business acumen. Parsi culture has encouraged that, but that's more because of their centuries long status as a minority group (akin to the Jews or Chinese in Southeast Asia). These are not Parsis, these are a different group of people. It doesn't make sense they could ever have a population the size of the United States (Australia physically cannot support that many people without futuristic solutions) or conquer large parts of the world (being right next door to those countries, they'll have similar technology, organisation, etc.). And I don't see how Zoroastrianism being a "rational faith" (whatever that means) somehow means "more science".
 

TruthfulPanda

Gone Fishin'
Maybe the Iranians that ended up in Australia may had been more "outreaching (I dunno how to spell the difficult word starting with "p") and had picked up
"There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus."
from Christians (Christian missionaries).
And when did the Zoroastrians adopt "yuo have to be born into the religion"? Or is that limited to Farsis (whom I know to be but one of several types of Zoroastrian)?
 
Honestly, a post-700s PoD relies on a Zoroastrian Restoration. Not impossible, but hard. You have to find the right time and leader. But there were strong Zoroastrian centres in SE/SE-Central Persia - that could be the heart of a new Persian Dynasty - or, short of that, have a large migration to the Indus Delta region - perhaps a leader there is sympathetic, and wants a new base of support. Then you can have a more restorationist or progressive (according to wiki) version of the faith that tries to make the Indus as Zoroastrian as the Ganges is Hindu - later on using this base of power to reconquer Persia. With two wealthy regions under their control, and the best logistics being those around the gulf - you've got the makings of a very coastal Zorastrian State, that could become a notable naval power - which works as a counterweight any Eastern Med rivals - and has three strong economic (four possibly) in mesopotamia, iran and the Indus (possibly central asia).

With that new approach to conversion, and a new state - THAT power could consider an Australian colony. Perhaps as a side effect of a strategy to ensure they control trade in the Indian Ocean.
 
At 700 AD the Zoroastrians are well into the process of being subjugated by various Islamic faiths, so a colony in Australia is practically nil. Even if they knew about Australia, there would be no reason to go there since it offers very little compared to settling in India.



Australia is not a very hospitable place, especially not the only part of the continent known for centuries, Western Australia, with its deserts and savannas. Agriculture is barely possible in that environment, so the population would remain small.

Also, "reluctant to accept assimilated people", what is that supposed to mean? I'm pretty sure assimilating people isn't related in the slightest to any nation's success on the global stage, except for maybe post-colonial nations like the United States. This country would have nothing to do with nations like the US or Canada or OTL Australia. And I'm also pretty sure that Zoroastrians could and did assimilate other groups, given Persia's history. A lot of Persian culture later carried over to Islam and assimilated other groups (i.e. Turks) too.

Zoroastrians have no inherent business acumen. Parsi culture has encouraged that, but that's more because of their centuries long status as a minority group (akin to the Jews or Chinese in Southeast Asia). These are not Parsis, these are a different group of people. It doesn't make sense they could ever have a population the size of the United States (Australia physically cannot support that many people without futuristic solutions) or conquer large parts of the world (being right next door to those countries, they'll have similar technology, organisation, etc.). And I don't see how Zoroastrianism being a "rational faith" (whatever that means) somehow means "more science".
1. The POD is right after the Islamic conquests, there are still many Zoroastrians about, it was only past the 900 ad mark that the Muslims surpassed the Zoroastrians in religion. Also it wouldn't be a colony subservient to Iran but more like a pariah state, still it would be a long shot. Perhaps some Zoroastrians try to go to Indonesia and get blown of course and land in Perth?
2. Australia does have large amounts of arid land but that does not mean it's inhospitable, there is good land near Perth and on the east coast, animals like Camels, Cattle, Sheep and Horses can thrive in Australia. Australia also has one of the world's largest aquifers, the great artesian basin.
3. I'd say they are most likely gonna be a naval power, since most of the best lands would be near the coasts, the easiest way to get around is to sail, not to mention the rich spice markets nearby and some good targets for expansion in New Zealand and Papua New Guinea
 
No Abbasid Revolution results in the collapse of the Caliphate, resulting in Persia remaining majority-Zoroastrian. Eventually, down the line, Persia conquers places like Zanzibar, and then gradually enlargens its role in the Indian Ocean trade network, trading with SE Asia. A Persian vessel discovers a mysterious, temperate land only inhabited by "savages" and returns to Persia with this news, resulting in its colonization.
 
No Abbasid Revolution results in the collapse of the Caliphate, resulting in Persia remaining majority-Zoroastrian. Eventually, down the line, Persia conquers places like Zanzibar, and then gradually enlargens its role in the Indian Ocean trade network, trading with SE Asia. A Persian vessel discovers a mysterious, temperate land only inhabited by "savages" and returns to Persia with this news, resulting in its colonization.
I'd rather avoid any major changes to history unless it's necessary
 
I've got a crazy idea. What if, through use of the rare substance known as handwavium, australia is discovered around the 500s by persian traders, who report back to anushirawan. Anushirawan organises an expedition to australia to find new lands and a new source of wealth to fund anti-roman wars, and a settler colony is soon established. But with a lack of people willing to go, surviving mazdakites are sent there, leading to a mass exodus of the mazdakite sect to australia, where the sassanids establish a sort of australian prisoner-colony analogue.
 
I've got a crazy idea. What if, through use of the rare substance known as handwavium, australia is discovered around the 500s by persian traders, who report back to anushirawan. Anushirawan organises an expedition to australia to find new lands and a new source of wealth to fund anti-roman wars, and a settler colony is soon established. But with a lack of people willing to go, surviving mazdakites are sent there, leading to a mass exodus of the mazdakite sect to australia, where the sassanids establish a sort of australian prisoner-colony analogue.
I like what I see...
 
1. The POD is right after the Islamic conquests, there are still many Zoroastrians about, it was only past the 900 ad mark that the Muslims surpassed the Zoroastrians in religion. Also it wouldn't be a colony subservient to Iran but more like a pariah state, still it would be a long shot. Perhaps some Zoroastrians try to go to Indonesia and get blown of course and land in Perth?
2. Australia does have large amounts of arid land but that does not mean it's inhospitable, there is good land near Perth and on the east coast, animals like Camels, Cattle, Sheep and Horses can thrive in Australia. Australia also has one of the world's largest aquifers, the great artesian basin.
3. I'd say they are most likely gonna be a naval power, since most of the best lands would be near the coasts, the easiest way to get around is to sail, not to mention the rich spice markets nearby and some good targets for expansion in New Zealand and Papua New Guinea

1. They were a very subjugated people who tended to convert to Islam for the benefits that religion offered socially and politically. No one in Iran knew of Australia, it's almost ten thousand kilometers away (by sea). You can't sail to Indonesia from Iran and land in Perth, you'll land in the Pilbara or the Kimberley which aren't land most people would want to settle in.
2. Perth is to the south--early explorers found the desert to the north first.
3. New Zealand is thousands of kilometers away and an utterly wild land with nothing to offer. Like how the Romans knew of Madeira yet did nothing, there's no reason to go that far and colonise New Zealand. New Guinea is a bit closer, but also offers nothing--it's a tropical swamp, producing nothing valuable (unlike the nearby Spice Islands), full of diverse groups of natives who might want to kill you.

The best chance for Australia might be the slightly more plausible "Persians sailing to South Africa", which was relatively sparsely inhabited, yet also known to explorers of the time. It would be a good land for their agriculture and farming, too. And like how the Dutch leaped from South Africa to Australia, the Indian Ocean trade routes from South Africa give you a much better chance of discovering Australia (including the really good lands in Southwestern Australia) than sailing directly from Persia.

I'd rather avoid any major changes to history unless it's necessary

To get a Zoroastrian Australia would require major changes to history, especially if your POD is post Islam.
 
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