WI : Zhoushan ceded to the British instead of Hong Kong?

I thought I'd recreate this as it was recently necro'd and locked (and I find the subject interesting, sue me).

China_Zhejiang_Zhoushan.svg


That little red dot is the slightly larger (and more central to China/Japan) Zhoushan.

What would be the effects of Zhoushan ceded in perpetuity to the British?Note that Zhoushan/Chusan and it's island groups seems to be much bigger than Hong Kong island. Would there be a significant impact on relations between Britain, China and Japan - and what changes would there be?

---

For my two cents I like the idea that the British would want to secure Taiwan as a result - but since that is Chinese currently, that is a no go, perhaps the result of a follow up war (I don't see why there wouldn't be a second Opium war). Zhoushan sits as a fantastic location for a trade post with both China and Japan. Being closer to the North China Plain would make it a better trade location for the British as they are closer to their markets - and as a result an alt-Hong Konger culture (Zhoushan culture) may be more prominent in OTL Shanghai and China as a whole, as well as on Zhoushan and Taiwan.

Whilst I don't expect Britain to force open Japan, they'd probably be supportive of the efforts to open Japan to trade, as well as leading to major British efforts in Nagasaki. Having Japan as a market, as well as China is good for business - enough to bankroll the Militarisation and Colonisation of Taiwan by British, Chinese and Japanese Settlers (and the same in Zhoushan).

I am curious as to whether Korea was much of a market (anyone know much about Korea?) - as Zhoushan is well placed for N.China, Japan and Korea - and amusingly, E.Russia. (I wonder if it would be quicker to transport goods from Russia via Zhoushan and the Black Sea than by land. I'd say yes, which would make things interesting with Russia).
 
Saturday, June, 6, 1998.

Then the clouds unfolded and the sea —well, the sea; that awful brown should be mostly Yangtze water even at this distance— was revealed. From the window of the BAe 125, sir Edgar Allerdyce Mahoney, KC, DSC, GCMG, GCVO, expected to glimpse again what would become his home for, at least, four years. But no land could be found; only the trail of at least fifty ships —mostly containerships, but also a big deal of tankers— steaming east or westbound. "We are starting our approach", croaked a voice coming from the cabin. "We are descending a bit earlier, sir, because we have information that the commies will try to put off some fireworks on your arrival. They're on for a surprise". Even from inside the plane it was evident that the air was charged with heated moisture; oh, the glories of late spring in East Asia. He felt nervous, again. His governorship was going to be a bumpy affair and he knew that; Twigg alerted him (the poor chap, even more distracted that he was) that the Chinese were bound to a fresh round of agitation on the build-up to the Communist Party congress, in October. But, come on, he relished the opportunity. If he passed on, what was next for him? A sedated governorship on the Turks and Caicos? Nah, he still was a military man, he knew the island, he lost his blood for it (indeed, his knee was very well lately, thank you very much) and he yearned for some action. The good thoughts were passing by his mind...oh, there they are. Two Rocks, Emery, Craig Rock... he knew the approach, even after all this years, even if he couldn't pilot a plane for the sake of it. Dozens of approaches, ferrying from Fukuoka and back, every two months, during four years, the best and the worst of his life. "Defence Campaign, 1969-73", told the clasp in his medal, and so proud of it, even if back home it wasn't that popular. Oh, that turn was new, that will confuse the Chinese. And, in good measure, it was to give him the inspection tour: there was Tai Shan, the naval base, home for years, and today a nest of spies for all he knew (that must be my first task here, he thought), then another big, long curve, a risky one, if an enterprising officer with a SA-2 took a chance for the worse... Nah, it wasn't there. Or, it... Oh, yeah, boom. The air vibrated, the plane shaked, but that was that; a card from Chairman Zhu "You are here, and you aren't welcome" but not even the thuggish hardliner in Peking would dare to knock down a RAF plane. It was for show: their waters, their air, their surface-air missile test; nothing to deserve more than the usual diplomatic complaint. And then the Big Island itself, in its green and brown glory: the Tsang Pai Oil Terminal, with the tankers loading that oh-so-much-needed oil for the further development of Chinese capitalism, with a good slice of profits to BP, Royal Dutch and Cathay Oil too; the water reservoirs, Evans, Matheson, Long Tan; the brownish industrial estates, chugging even more cheap toys and electronics to dilapidated shops in Salford; the one, two, three containership terminals (these weren't there in my Royal Marines youth); that was Beilun, there's where the bad guys are; here Port Albert, with the astounding Eight Towers and a skyline to give New York a run for its money... now low, a stretch of brown water again... and here we are. The brakes of the BAe 125 slammed down. "We have arrived, sir", croaked the voice again. "It's eleven fifteen local time". He was grateful. He was hopeful. He was home.

Sunday, January, 19, 1969.

"Oh, mate, that's good". Sergeant Edgar A. Mahoney has tasted his first bacon bun of the day. Not all coronaries resisted that oh-so-Chusanese treat, but of course if somebody's could, it certainly would be the arteries of a 24-year old Irish-Scots, strong as a bull and first in every strength competition at the Fletcher Barracks. The day was cold and strangely dry, "dry" meaning in Eastern China terms "not bone-chilling damp". But there was sun in the sky, sergeant Mahoney had in his hand a warm bun full of honest-to-goodness wine-braised pork belly (mixed with cabbage and other vegetables) and a fine bottle (small bottle) of Niu Chaw Wan Brewery Ale, and the Forces radio was blasting 'Help Yourself', from Tom Jones. The song ended with the noon pips and the bulletin: the voice was of his friend Michael Patterson.

"Good morning. It is twelve hundred, midday local time. This is the British Forces Broadcasting Service, transmitting from Victoria Town, Chusan, at 194 and 247 meters, that is 1214 and 1546 kilocycles. Now with the news. The Communist Chinese Red Guards have launched publicly today a campaign against the United Kingdom, Portugal, and other foreign powers who keep posessions in China, not only in the Communist controlled areas, but also in the Nationalist zones in the south of the country and Formosa. This movement has not been denounced by the Peking government..."

He couldn't know then, but it started it all. "It was a perfect day", Mahoney remembered later.
 
Last edited:
I think the PoD must be Article the Third of the Treaty of Nanking (1842):

Article III.
It being obviously necessary and desirable that British subjects should have some ports whereat they may [maintain] and refit their ships when required, and keep stores for that purpose, His Majesty the Emperor of China cedes to Her Majesty the Queen of Great Britain, &c., the Island of Hong-Kong; and the Islands so called Pescadores, or Peng Hu; and the Chusan Archipelago, to be possessed in perpetuity by Her Britannic Majesty, her heirs and successors, and to be governed by such laws and regulations as Her Majesty the Queen of Great Britain, &c., shall see fit to direct.

What do you think?

The first question is: what would the British trading houses do? Would they keep themselves around Canton, or move to the new colony? As far as I know, Zhejiang is THE tea capital of China, so there's an attraction focus.
 
Last edited:
I think the PoD must be Article the Third of the Treaty of Nanking (1842):

Article III.
It being obviously necessary and desirable that British subjects should have some ports whereat they may [maintain] and refit their ships when required, and keep stores for that purpose, His Majesty the Emperor of China cedes to Her Majesty the Queen of Great Britain, &c., the Island of Hong-Kong; and the Islands so called Pescadores, or Peng Hu; and the Chusan Archipelago, to be possessed in perpetuity by Her Britannic Majesty, her heirs and successors, and to be governed by such laws and regulations as Her Majesty the Queen of Great Britain, &c., shall see fit to direct.

What do you think?

The first question is: what would the British trading houses do? Would they keep themselves around Canton, or move to the new colony? As far as I know, Zhejiang is THE tea capital of China, so there's an attraction focus.

That was in line with what I was expecting, although I am not sure what value Hong Kong has when Britain has Zhoushan. I guess having two trade posts is useful, and the position gives Britain more bases near China.

I didn't know that about the Tea though, that would significantly change the British bullion problem that lead to the Opium war in the first place. Tea coming from Zhoushan would not lead to Britain losing silver at the same rate as OTL.

Do you think that Britain may well have to become an arbiter in the Far East? The Third Party to settle disputes between China, Japan and Korea?

I'm pretty convinced that a second opium war will take place regardless, leading to the likely acquisition of Taiwan and previously mentioned settlement, but do you thinking the Japanese settlers would be Kristian, or openly so, and what relationship they'd have with Japan proper.
 
That was in line with what I was expecting, although I am not sure what value Hong Kong has when Britain has Zhoushan. I guess having two trade posts is useful, and the position gives Britain more bases near China.

I didn't know that about the Tea though, that would significantly change the British bullion problem that lead to the Opium war in the first place. Tea coming from Zhoushan would not lead to Britain losing silver at the same rate as OTL.

Do you think that Britain may well have to become an arbiter in the Far East? The Third Party to settle disputes between China, Japan and Korea?

I'm pretty convinced that a second opium war will take place regardless, leading to the likely acquisition of Taiwan and previously mentioned settlement, but do you thinking the Japanese settlers would be Kristian, or openly so, and what relationship they'd have with Japan proper.

Well, the First Opium War was, first and foremost, an initiative of the British merchant houses in the Pearl River Delta, so is logical that the British have AT LEAST a naval base there to protect their interests. Of course, the question is (as I asked before) if with possibly richer outposts up North the Canton-based hongs would be that interested in Hong Kong. In the other side, Zhoushan is very much closer to the heart of Chinese power, so the Qing have more reasons to be concerned with Britain —and the anti-Western sentiment would get stronger, quicker than in OTL. I expect an angrier China (not only against the British, but also against the Qing) and a more concerned Korea. As about Japan... I don't think the bakufu would see a Zhoushan colony as such a concern, at least in a first phase.

I'm not so certain that the cost-conscious British would want a full-on occupation and colonization of Taiwan if cheaper alternatives could be found. As in Malaya, I think their policy would be most "let's build trade outposts and make treaties with the rest". The Pescadores offer a more than sufficient base against pirates and for careening (later coaling) in the Taiwan Straits.
 
An interesting potential effect: Zhoushan is six times larger than Hong Kong Island, and the relief is a little (a little) milder. Space constraints would not be such an issue as in Hong Kong, and even if skyscrapers get built later, I reckon that residential areas would not need the 60-stories monsters you can find in the Hong Kong suburbs.
 
[From the Chusan Courier & Intelligencer, Monday, June 8, 1998]

Governor arrives: 'Business as usual'
In first speech, Mahoney promises 'security, order and social welfare' in Chusan

From M. E. SHAN, Political Correspondent.

The new Governor of Chusan and Pescadores, sir Edgar Mahoney, has promised 'security, order and social welfare' for the citizens of both colonies during his administration at his arrival here this Saturday. 'That means business as usual', said sir Edgar. The new Governor arrived at 11.30 this Saturday at the Poo Tuow Airport, where he was received by the retiring Governor, sir Sebastian Heseltine, the Chief Secretary of Chusan, mr. Christian Mowbridge, the Commander of British Forces in China, Major-General Robert Michaelson, the president of the Chamber of Commerce, sir Alexander Harvest, and the president of the Legislative Council, dr. Nicholas Wang. After the Royal Chusan Police Band played God save the King, the official state car brought both Governors to the High Court Buildings, at Burrell Square, where the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, sir Sylvester Harvest-Lee, took oath to the new Governor. A small parade of the Royal Chinese Regiment, the 5th Gurkha Regiment, the Royal Marines and the Royal Chusan Police followed, and after that, the new Governor took posession of Government House, at the Forty-Nine Hills.
 
OK, people, let's bring this thread back to the 19th century, where it legally belongs. All comments will be welcome and everything can and will be corrected if reasonable.

"The Treaty of Nanking could have been "a resounding triumph for Britannia", as lord Palmerston gloated in the Lords, but it left the new Tory minister of Robert Peel and, specially, the new Foreign Secretary, lord Aberdeen, absolutely livid. In their eyes, the push into China was an expensive proposition; Chusan could and would pay for itself, but Hong Kong was an unknown quantity and the Pescadores, without any natural resources, could be no more than a naval base, all expenses and no revenues. Expenses who would fall in the shoulders of the British taxpayer, for the benefit of the big trading companies in Canton (the hongs). "God knows how much silver Britain will have to pour to keep those rocks in the other side of the world", wrote Aberdeen.

The fact is that the Treaty was a reflex of the triumph in the negotiation table of the might of the hongs and the glory-hungry military men against the more cautious position of the Chief Superintendent for Trade in China, Charles Elliot. Elliot —who loathed the hongs and the opium traffic, as he told Palmerston once in a letter— wanted only Hong Kong [1] but changed his mind under pressure. Palmerston was absolutely satisfied and asked the Queen to grant Elliot the Order of the Bath, and she obliged [2]; but at the Palace, Aberdeen took Elliot aside to scold him for the "presumptuous and expensive muddle"; it took a good half an hour for the poor Superintendent to explain himself. Anyway, Aberdeen had decided that the colonies would have to be economically self-sustaining as soon as possible.

There would be soon another thing to consider: the fact that the Emperor of China was angry with the treaty. As soon as its text arrived to Peking, ambassador Elepoo was unceremoniously sent north as imperial commissioner in Mongolia; although the Emperor did not dare to denounce the text, it made known his discontent with it. The Canton hongs were not interested in a renewal of the hostilities either, so both sides got their chance to correct their divergences in the supplementary Treaty of the Bogue (1843). There, Britain renounced to the 1846 tranche of the indemnity in silver (a million dollars), a gesture which mellowed somehow the Emperor's ire.

But if the Emperor was at least appeased, many Chinese were not. The barbarians were literally at the gates, and silver would not be enough to placate their ire.

[1] In OTL, he got what he wanted: he crossed out the "s" in "islands" in the treaty and wrote only "Hong Kong".
[2] In OTL, Palmerston got angry, accused Elliot of ignoring his instructions and dismissed him; Elliot would be designated consul general to Texas (quite a punishment in 1842) and only get his KCB in 1856.
 
Top