WI:Yongle establishes a Commandery in Sulu

Present day Luzon was actually originally named by the Chinese as "Liu-sung" after the local word "lusong", wooden rice mortar . Trades between the Chinese and people in Luzon has historical records up until 900AD+ or around 1,100 years ago.

Present day Luzon(Liu-sung), present day Mindoro(Mai in chinese) were more attractive to the Chinese than the farther Sulu island, which uptil this time was no yet a Sultante. Luzon also contained gold and the Igurot/Ifugao people who built the Banaue Rice Terraces approx 650 A.D and 4 other similar rice terraces.

For those that do not know, Banaue Rice Terraces 1,500m above sea level which covered 10,360 sq kms of mountainside which was probably stonewalled by this time. Think of Incan civilization level type.

The Chinese not settling a command base in Sulu or in any modern day Philippines is really a mystery. The Chinese had contacts with most of what is modern day Philippines was 500 years before any Muslim or Islam mission was even sent in Sulu or Manila.

In my opinion, it is also possible that Luzon was more unified and more organized back(Maysapan/Igurots,etc.) when the Chinese was in initial contact rather than the Greek City states type like of division of Philippine Cities back when the Spanish first arrived.
 
Present day Luzon was actually originally named by the Chinese as "Liu-sung" after the local word "lusong", wooden rice mortar . Trades between the Chinese and people in Luzon has historical records up until 900AD+ or around 1,100 years ago.

Present day Luzon(Liu-sung), present day Mindoro(Mai in chinese) were more attractive to the Chinese than the farther Sulu island, which uptil this time was no yet a Sultante. Luzon also contained gold and the Igurot/Ifugao people who built the Banaue Rice Terraces approx 650 A.D and 4 other similar rice terraces.

For those that do not know, Banaue Rice Terraces 1,500m above sea level which covered 10,360 sq kms of mountainside which was probably stonewalled by this time. Think of Incan civilization level type.

The Chinese not settling a command base in Sulu or in any modern day Philippines is really a mystery. The Chinese had contacts with most of what is modern day Philippines was 500 years before any Muslim or Islam mission was even sent in Sulu or Manila.

In my opinion, it is also possible that Luzon was more unified and more organized back(Maysapan/Igurots,etc.) when the Chinese was in initial contact rather than the Greek City states type like of division of Philippine Cities back when the Spanish first arrived.
There are proofs that the Island we now call as Luzon was not really called Luzon

Beliau menulis “This tiny island of Lozon in the Sulu Sea disappeared from the maps after the Spaniards had occupied the northern Philippines, and it was replaced by the real Luzon”.
http://tausug-global.blogspot.com/2010/06/kepulauan-sulu-sebelum-kemunculan-nama.html


Actually, the Ma-I polity and area includes Lihan which is the former name of Malolos according to the Chinese annals so Ma-I and Selurong were the old (or rather as I believe the real) names of the Island of Luzon(Including Calamian and Mindoro), the people tend to ignore this fact even if this is hinted in the history books in fact some Bangsamoro still call Luzon as Selurong.

Aside from that the most likely Althist name for 'Luzon' if it was not conquered by the Spanish would sound ironic in OTL.
 
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Selurong is actually one of the cities in Luzon around 1500s. It only became known as Selurong/Seludong around 1500s long after Emperor Yongle was dead and because the Sultanate of Brunei at the time of Sultan Bolkiah (1485–1521) invaded and defeated the Kingdom of Tondo(an Indianized kingdom) because Kingdom of Tondo controlled much of the Chinese Trade.

As for Mai, the most earliest records about the Chinese naming Mai is with the Chinese Imperial annals Zhu Fan Zhi and History of Song written by Zhao Rugua around 1225. There is no proof the Chinese named "Selurong/Seludong". Only proof when Manila was named "Selurong/Seludong" is written in the Tausug and Malay royal histories.

Going back to the original post and question, in order for the Yongle Emperor invading Sulu, 1)the Chinese needs to be in control of the more attractive Luzon, or 2) Sulu's natural resources/trade offering more to the Chinese than Luzon.
 
Selurong is actually one of the cities in Luzon around 1500s. It only became known as Selurong/Seludong around 1500s long after Emperor Yongle was dead and because the Sultanate of Brunei at the time of Sultan Bolkiah (1485–1521) invaded and defeated the Kingdom of Tondo(an Indianized kingdom) because Kingdom of Tondo controlled much of the Chinese Trade.

As for Mai, the most earliest records about the Chinese naming Mai is with the Chinese Imperial annals Zhu Fan Zhi and History of Song written by Zhao Rugua around 1225. There is no proof the Chinese named "Selurong/Seludong". Only proof when Manila was named "Selurong/Seludong" is written in the Tausug and Malay royal histories.

Going back to the original post and question, in order for the Yongle Emperor invading Sulu, 1)the Chinese needs to be in control of the more attractive Luzon, or 2) Sulu's natural resources/trade offering more to the Chinese than Luzon.
Actually, it is not the Chinese who called the Island we call today as Luzon as Selurong but the surrounding Malay neighbors are the ones that call it as Selurong which is also another name for manila but the specific name for Manila is Amanillah there are no Malay records that say that the name of the Island is Luzon, but the Chinese call the area we now call as Luzon as Ma-i, the Chinese have an interest and good relations with Sulu that even one of Sulu's Sultans are buried in China, the distortion of the Geography and misnomers are the problem that is why the history of the Philippines is difficult to Study.
 
Actually, it is not the Chinese who called the Island we call today as Luzon as Selurong but the surrounding Malay neighbors are the ones that call it as Selurong which is also another name for manila but the specific name for Manila is Amanillah there are no Malay records that say that the name of the Island is Luzon, but the Chinese call the area we now call as Luzon as Ma-i, the Chinese have an interest and good relations with Sulu that even one of Sulu's Sultans are buried in China, the distortion of the Geography and misnomers are the problem that is why the history of the Philippines is difficult to Study.

Well for Mai, Chinese accounts fits the description of kingdom which is centered around Mindoro Island. There are also archaeological evidence on trades between Mindoro and Chinese.

I am assuming your POD is Yongle Emperor ruling China timeframe based on your original post(1402-1424AD).

Yes, China and Sulu have good relations at the time Sultanate of Sulu existed which is around 1457AD+. At the time of Yongle, this type of relation did not exist since Sultanate of Sulu did not exist yet.

Assuming if Brunei did threatened Chinese Trade in Luzon, China will probably directly invade Brunei than invade Luzon or Sulu. POD will be around Sultan Bolkiah's time around 1485AD+. However, Yongle has already died by this time.

In OTL, Kingdom Tondo still existed even after Brunei invaded Tondo. Rather than be its original form of an Indianized/Hindu/Buddhist kingdom, under Brunei, Kingdom of Tondo became Muslim. The only time Kingdom of Tondo stop existing was when the Spanish arrived. So, if you want Kingdom of Tondo to continue to exist, POD must be vs Spain which is around 1570AD+.
 
Well for Mai, Chinese accounts fits the description of kingdom which is centered around Mindoro Island. There are also archaeological evidence on trades between Mindoro and Chinese.

I am assuming your POD is Yongle Emperor ruling China timeframe based on your original post(1402-1424AD).

Yes, China and Sulu have good relations at the time Sultanate of Sulu existed which is around 1457AD+. At the time of Yongle, this type of relation did not exist since Sultanate of Sulu did not exist yet.

Assuming if Brunei did threatened Chinese Trade in Luzon, China will probably directly invade Brunei than invade Luzon or Sulu. POD will be around Sultan Bolkiah's time around 1485AD+. However, Yongle has already died by this time.

In OTL, Kingdom Tondo still existed even after Brunei invaded Tondo. Rather than be its original form of an Indianized/Hindu/Buddhist kingdom, under Brunei, Kingdom of Tondo became Muslim. The only time Kingdom of Tondo stop existing was when the Spanish arrived. So, if you want Kingdom of Tondo to continue to exist, POD must be vs Spain which is around 1570AD+.
After the Bolkiah conquest the rulers of the Kingdom of Tondo are Bolkiahs.

Actually, the Places said to be subordinates of Ma-I are Baipuyan(Babuyan Islands), Busuanga(Bajinong), Malolos(Lihan), the description matches with the Kingdom of Tondo rather than Mindoro.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Tondo
 
Yes the Bolkiahs ruled Tondo after invasion which led to the foundation of Seludong.

There is no proof that Tondo all ruled this before the Brunei invasion. Especially Butuan, since Butuan had direct trading links with China. The only proof that Tondo was anything superior to any other Asian State was China traded with Tondo frequently and the Chinese treated Tondo as Chinese rather than as foreigners.
 
Yes the Bolkiahs ruled Tondo after invasion which led to the foundation of Seludong.

There is no proof that Tondo all ruled this before the Brunei invasion. Especially Butuan, since Butuan had direct trading links with China. The only proof that Tondo was anything superior to any other Asian State was China traded with Tondo frequently and the Chinese treated Tondo as Chinese rather than as foreigners.
I said Busuanga not Butuan, Busuanga is a part of Luzon area.

http://royalsultanate.weebly.com/diplomatic-reality.html

Yeah, the Chinese traded with Tondo but they traded more with Sulu especially in the 15-16th century, the City of Manila or rather Maynilad existed before the Bruneian conquest and it was founded by Sri Vijaya and it was a part of Majapahit at one time, I think Tondo might also be a Vassal of Majapahit.



Post Brunei invasion, Tondo went downstream. Before Brunei invasion, Tondo had majority of the Chinese Trade which is the primary reason why Brunei invaded Tondo at the first place.

There are no current records that Sri Vajaya and Majapahit control Tondo nor any city state in Luzon nor was Tondo part of Sri Vajaya/Majapahit. But there are records that the Chinese consider Tondo as part of China once, if not part within its sphere of influence. Although Tondo pre-brunei/islam invasion functioned much like Sri Vijaya and Majapahit governments.
there is evidence Maynila was once part of Majapahit for a time
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Manila

No, it is Sulu that had close relations with China, even one of its Sultans are buried in China, the problem is the distortion of history of the Philippines.
 
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Yeah, the Chinese traded with Tondo but they traded more with Sulu especially in the 15-16th century, the City of Manila or rather Maynilad existed before the Bruneian conquest and it was founded by Sri Vijaya and it was a part of Majapahit at one time, I think Tondo might also be a Vassal of Majapahit.

Post Brunei invasion, Tondo went downstream. Before Brunei invasion, Tondo had majority of the Chinese Trade which is the primary reason why Brunei invaded Tondo at the first place.

There are no current records that Sri Vajaya and Majapahit control Tondo nor any city state in Luzon nor was Tondo part of Sri Vajaya/Majapahit. But there are records that the Chinese consider Tondo as part of China once, if not part within its sphere of influence. Although Tondo pre-brunei/islam invasion functioned much like Sri Vijaya and Majapahit governments.
 
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