WI: Yongle Emperor and the Ming Dynasty annexed parts of Arabia and Africa?

WI: Yongle Emperor and the Ming Dynasty annexed parts of Arabia and Africa?

Ming Dynasty Admiral Zheng He made a series of voyages on behalf of the Yongle Emperor. Two of these expeditions in particular lead the Chinese admiral to Hormuz and Aden in Arabia, Mogadishu and Malindi in Africa. My question is what if the Chinese decided to annex these areas? Zheng had with him 28,000 soldiers plus a large fleet of 300 ships would that be enough to establish themselves?

Source
The DK book "Explorers" by Sir Ranulph Fiennes
 
WI: Yongle Emperor and the Ming Dynasty annexed parts of Arabia and Africa?

Ming Dynasty Admiral Zheng He made a series of voyages on behalf of the Yongle Emperor. Two of these expeditions in particular lead the Chinese admiral to Hormuz and Aden in Arabia, Mogadishu and Malindi in Africa. My question is what if the Chinese decided to annex these areas? Zheng had with him 28,000 soldiers plus a large fleet of 300 ships would that be enough to establish themselves?

Source
The DK book "Explorers" by Sir Ranulph Fiennes
Why would this happen? The Ming government were never interested in expanding overseas (there were Chinese who immigrated of their private volition), and it was already engaged at this time in a very costly campaign trying to expand its land borders (which failed).
 
The Chinese had no desire to annex lands, afterall their is a reason the Philippines and Indonesia, areas much closer to the mainland (and considered further up the ladder of what was civilized), were never annexed.
 
The Ming were largely a Hegemonic Empire. They installed puppet leader here and there but did not annex anything far from home. I often postulate that any Ming Prescence in the New World would see them make protectorates. Of the the locals.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
The Chinese had no desire to annex lands, afterall their is a reason the Philippines and Indonesia, areas much closer to the mainland (and considered further up the ladder of what was civilized), were never annexed.

The Ming were largely a Hegemonic Empire. They installed puppet leader here and there but did not annex anything far from home. I often postulate that any Ming Prescence in the New World would see them make protectorates. Of the the locals.

I agree. To have the Chinese annex lands in Arabia and Africa would require such a fundamental change in the mindset of the Chinese that it could only have been done by significant social and cultural PODs that would change many other aspects of Chinese history and thereby lead to a world in which Zheng He never existed at all.
 
Why would this happen? The Ming government were never interested in expanding overseas (there were Chinese who immigrated of their private volition), and it was already engaged at this time in a very costly campaign trying to expand its land borders (which failed).

They were already fighting pirates in the area so they had the forces there. They only had to take these places with the forces already avalible.Wouldn't the goverment be interested in the rich trade that went on in the area?
 
They were already fighting pirates in the area so they had the forces there. They only had to take these places with the forces already avalible.Wouldn't the goverment be interested in the rich trade that went on in the area?

The thing about the Chinese and trade was that they were a very self sufficient nation when it came to the goods they desired.

The government felt no need to expand since all the world came to them to trade. Europe, on the other hand, had to actually voyage to get the stuff they wanted.
 
They were already fighting pirates in the area so they had the forces there. They only had to take these places with the forces already avalible.Wouldn't the goverment be interested in the rich trade that went on in the area?
There's a difference between fighting the locals and establishing a military presence in an area. It's not inconceivable (but not very likely) for China to decide to protect trade routes and establish garrisons outside of its territory. However, for China to annex overseas lands, especially as far away as Arabia and Africa, is much more unlikely. The Chinese conception was largely that China already occupied the best land on Earth, with boundaries dictated by 2000 years of tradition. There's little reason to expand so far away.
 
I agree that, unless we have a very different emperor on the Chinese throne (and a very difficult political culture in China), annexation would have been unthinkable. The only possibility for a Chinese state to occur on the coasts of the Indian Ocean would be if Zheng He (probably with a different personality than OTL) or another commander, decided he would rather be a ruler in the "uncivilized" lands the fleet was visiting rather than return to the Middle Kingdom, and would stay behind with a significant number of troops. Maybe there is word that this commander would not be received well on return to China. Or maybe the soldiers have been stranded by a shipwreck. I'm sure that scenarios could be thought up that would lead to a conquest of somewhere in Africa or Arabia by Chinese troops, but I doubt this would ever result in an annexation by the Chinese emperor.
 
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