WI: Xerox developed the iMac?

[phx1138]

After seeing a YouTube video on the biggest business blunders...

In 1973, Xerox developed an experimental computer, with mouse, windows, copy-paste capacity, file managers, menus, icons, GUI, even a LAN. Yet management ignored it, & effectively gave it away to Apple.

WI Xerox had been a bit smarter? Would Apple have disappeared? Would Xerox have gotten into phones? Or would this PC have sunk into oblivion, sold by a company that didn't know what to do with it?

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Note that the Xerox Star, which is what you'd start with, was 16k$ vs the Lisa 10k$. And the Lisa didn't sell well, largely due to cost.

Xerox is a big-iron company, and it likely couldn't match the prices that Apple sold their Macintosh line for.

Note that the Star's CPU was multiple discreet chips, as opposed to Apple using off the shelf Motorola microprocessors.

So. No, I find it hard to believe that they'd succeed, even if they tried much harder.
OTOH, they'd have a lot easier time selling to businesses than Apple did, so I guess they might have a chance.

 

[phx1138]

Note that the Xerox Star, which is what you'd start with, was 16k$ vs the Lisa 10k$. And the Lisa didn't sell well, largely due to cost.

High cost was the reason Xerox brought Jobs in: they hoped he could tell them how to cut them. So you'd need somebody in Xerox to figure that out. Like using off-shelf microprocessors, for a start?

I'd guess Xerox sales to business would have the advantage of the Xerox name, much as IBM would have--but maybe less so, with no computing background.

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Well, changing processors would be a real pain. It always is.

 

[marathag]

Note that the Xerox Star, which is what you'd start with, was 16k$ vs the Lisa 10k$. And the Lisa didn't sell well, largely due to cost.

Worse than that, $16k was just for additional Workstations, you still needed a server. That was about $75,000.

That's still 'Big Iron' pricing

 

[Catsmate]

They'd screw it up.

 

[Anawrahta]

So this is a Xenix wank? Instead of lInux i download xenix?

 

[Asami]

WI Xerox had been a bit smarter? Would Apple have disappeared? Would Xerox have gotten into phones? Or would this PC have sunk into oblivion, sold by a company that didn't know what to do with it?

Apple still had quite a robust market placement with the Apple II's success, and could have very easily continued their niche in education. And just like OTL, the patents on GUI elements can't be guaranteed forever, particularly as computers become more common. Apple tried to stop Microsoft and others from copying the graphical user interface patents they bought off Xerox. It didn't work, and now Windows is the largest market share OS in the world.

Note that the Xerox Star, which is what you'd start with, was 16k$ vs the Lisa 10k$. And the Lisa didn't sell well, largely due to cost.

Worse than that, $16k was just for additional Workstations, you still needed a server. That was about $75,000.

That's still 'Big Iron' pricing

This, very much so. The cost of the Xerox Star, much like the ill-fated Apple Lisa, is going to be the largest obstacle to mass adoption, particularly when IBM and DEC mainframes will have no need to be replaced at such a price tag when they're already well-wedged into the enterprise market.

Xerox is a big-iron company, and it likely couldn't match the prices that Apple sold their Macintosh line for.

Certainly not, since the Macintosh was designed to be an appliance for the home, something that people at Xerox hadn't given nearly any thought to in those days.

Note that the Star's CPU was multiple discreet chips, as opposed to Apple using off the shelf Motorola microprocessors.

Cost of materials will drive up the cost to the end user!

So. No, I find it hard to believe that they'd succeed, even if they tried much harder.
OTOH, they'd have a lot easier time selling to businesses than Apple did, so I guess they might have a chance.

I would say probably not, since trying to butt in on IBM and DEC's market space wouldn't fly well in either board room. Apple was able to get away w/ it because their computers were seen as innocuous toys, and IBM later realized their mistake and jumped on the bandwagon and thoroughly dominated it, even after they themselves withdrew from the market in the 2000s.

There is a reason why for many years, all x86 machines were called "IBM compatibles"

High cost was the reason Xerox brought Jobs in: they hoped he could tell them how to cut them. So you'd need somebody in Xerox to figure that out. Like using off-shelf microprocessors, for a start?

If you could change Xerox's company culture, and convince the brass to support the concept, then maybe.

I'd guess Xerox sales to business would have the advantage of the Xerox name, much as IBM would have--but maybe less so, with no computing background.

Xerox could bank on their name, but they'd be facing an uphill battle once others started strong-arming their way into the market. IBM took over the PC market for a very good reason, being synonymous with "computers" for the better part of a generation.

Well, changing processors would be a real pain. It always is.

Back in those days, it would mean having to start over from scratch, effectively; there wasn't anything in the way of "hypervisors" and "translation layers" back then. It's why a lot of software didn't make the jump between the Z80 CP/M environment and the x86 MS-DOS environment.

They'd screw it up.

Most likely.

So this is a Xenix wank? Instead of lInux i download xenix?

Xenix ! = Xerox.

Xenix was a UNIX-based operating system developed by Microsoft (and later Santa Cruz Operation) during the 1980s and 1990s, designed for the Intel i860 and 386 processors.

Xerox is the copy-machine company, and their OS was not UNIX-based.

 

[marathag]

This, very much so. The cost of the Xerox Star, much like the ill-fated Apple Lisa, is going to be the largest obstacle to mass adoption, particularly when IBM and DEC mainframes will have no need to be replaced at such a price tag when they're already well-wedged into the enterprise market.

This was right at the time all the Big Iron manufacturers, even Big Blue, were getting fewer order for the Mainframes and Minicomputers.

The first popular 8 bit 6502, 6800 and Z80 had started nibbling at their sales, but after 1983 the x86 compatible market was born, and was growing in the small business area, and going up to medium size businesses with Novell's NetWare, where upto 50 workstations could do file and printer sharing orver the networks in place at the time, like TokenRing, Arcnet, IPX, and even AppleTalk. Oh, and this new 'Ethernet' on 10base2 that had an amazing fast 10mb speed.

With Novell, and a around the same Dollars as a luxury Auto, would have a working Network system, a fraction of the cost of the previous solutions.

So only really large companies, like airlines, were buying Big Iron anymore, in those days before the Internet would take off and restore the need for that kind of power. Late '80s were grim times Unisys(the recent merger between Sperry and Burroughs) and DEC, and even IBM, where the P/S2 were not the hoped for success in the PC market

 

[yulzari]

FWIW I had an Amari PC (yes PC) which ran a non Microsoft UI/mouse interface in the mid 1980's from MS-DOS. There were many bidders for the market than Microsoft or Apple at the time and Apple was hobbling itself by insisting on combining theor offers with their hardware. Good hardware and I moved onto Apple and stayed with them to today. Still have my firstClassic and an original Portable and am Emate. The last two have the best keyboards I have ever used.