WI: WW2 over by 1944

What if the War ended a year earlier, and how could this be managed to be brought about?

Also, what would result from the war ending earlier, and what would that post-war world look like?
 
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Bringing it about is the easiest thing ever, the Allies had some terrible luck and made some dodgy decisions early on in the way which extended the war by a long time. For mine I'd avoid the Greek debacle and forge on in the desert while holding Crete, this put the WAllies in a good position to go on limited offensives from 1942. Secondly I'd hold the bulk of the Soviet Armies behind the Stalin Line and occupy Poland with what amounts to covering forces, so the first German thrusts are against nothing of substance.

The main consequence of WW2 finishing in 1944 would be less exhaustion on the part of Britain so she could remain a great power postwar, not in the league of the Superpowers but a cut above everyone else.
 
An early Commonwealth victory in North Africa means thousands more personnel are available to defend Malaya from the Japanese so that offensive probably fails meaning Japan doesn't get the resources of SE Asia to fuel it's military. The Pacific theatre is probably over by 1943 or early '44 at the latest when Japan's economy collapses and its no longer able to sustain military operations.

To have Europe finish earlier as well as the forementioned holding of Cretehave the invasion of Italy be better executed, land on the mainland at the same time as the invasion of Sicily and trap the bulk of Kesselring's force there allowing for a quicker race up Italy. On D-Day have the Allies breakout of Normandy much quicker, having someone realise the bocage is perfect defensive ground so have more Rhino bulldozer tanks to smash through the hedges and flush out the defenders. Don't delay in closing the Falaise Gap catching thousands more Germans in the bag allowing a quicker Liberation of France. Finally don't have the British stop at Antwerp but carry on and clear the Scheldt allowing for quicker resupply for the final push into Germany.

Again as said above Britain comes out of this better, particularly if Malaya hasn't fallen, decolonisation will be delayed for about another decade with all the potential problems that could cause.
 
Easiest way of course would be for the Allies to win the Battle of France in 1940.

Barring that, keeping Crete and driving the Italians from North Africa in 1940-41 will go a long way towards ending the war by 1944, as has already been mentioned.

Even with all this Malaya and Singapore will probably still fall, but it would take longer and prevent the Japanese from moving into Burma before the monsoon season. This in turn would keep the Burma Road open as well as provide a good springboard for retaking Malaya/Singapore as well as liberating Indochina.

This is actually pretty much the scenario in France Fights On (warning: In French so use Google Translate, you'll get the gist of it.).
 
What if the War ended a year earlier, and how could this be managed to be brought about?

Well, that depends on how it ends and with what result.

An Axis victory in 1944? The change of the outcome is a lot more significant than the change in the date.

Also, what would result from the war ending earlier, and what would that post-war world look like?
Again, that depends on how the war ends and with what result.

One wants V-J Day by 14 August 1944.

Is that possible?

Yes. For instance:

In May 1941, Stalin is finally persuaded to accept the possibility that Germany may attack. He places the forces on the western frontier on partial alert. BARBAROSSA is still a great initial success, but not a tremendous success. Axis casualties are substantial, Soviet casualties are heavy but not disastrous, and the Axis is checked well short of Moscow and Leningrad.

Rommel is KIA or captured during Operation BATTLEAXE in June 1941, and the Allies break the siege of Tobruk. The Axis retreat through Cyrenaica is disorderly and loss-ridden. Without Rommel's appeal to Hitler, no further German reinforcements for PAA. Tripoli falls to the Allies in September 1941, ending the North African campaign.

With the North Africa campaign ending, the British transfer substantial forces to SE Asia, including veteran Australian divisions and many fighter aircraft.

The Pacific War starts in December. The additional Allied forces in SE Asia delay the fall of Singapore by two months and prevent the fall of Burma. The Burma Road to China remains open.

Down the road: French North and West Africa join the Allies in early 1942. The Allies take Crete and the Aegean islands, and bomb Ploiesti early and often. The Axis 1942 offensive in Russia has limited success, and the Axis is back at its start line by December. Sicily falls in early 1943, and Italy surrenders. The Allies grab Corsica, Sardinia, southern Italy, and Greece. The Soviets drive back the Germans in the north and center.

In September 1943, the Allies make a surprise cross-Channel landing, and liberate half of France by December. The Allies also push forward into Bulgaria and Yugoslavia. The Soviets reach Kiev, Minsk, and Riga.

In December 1943, Romania and Bulgaria surrender to the Allies. Soviet and Western forces meet just north of Bucharest. In winter fighting the Allies liberate Paris and drive to the German border by February 1944.

In February 1944 a giant Soviet winter offensive annihilates Army Group Center and rolls through Poland. Western Allied forces march through Yugoslavia into Hungary, which surrenders in April. So does Slovakia; the Allies continue to Vienna and Prague. In April 1944, the Allies smash German forces west of the Rhine. They cross the Rhine in May, and meet forces from the east in June as Hitler dies in his bunker. V-E Day is 20 June 1944.

Now for the Pacific War. Defeated in Burma, the Japanese fail to take the Andaman Islands. When the Japanese carrier fleet raids into the Indian Ocean, it meets much stronger land-based air and stronger British carrier forces. The Japanese sink Hermes and Formidable, but lose Hiryu to a night torpedo bomber attack. (The Brits can do that - the Japanese can't.) Akagi and Soryu also get torpedoed, but get away. Meanwhile, Shokaku and Shoho are sunk in the Coral Sea, as is Lexington. The Japanese attempt the Midway operation with a scratch force of Kaga, Zuikaku, Junyo, and Ryujo, and lose badly - only Kaga and Ryujo survive, and no U.S. carriers are lost, though all three are damaged.

The U.S. takes Guadalcanal, and the Japanese can't counterattack. By January 1943, the Allies have retaken most of the Solomons. In the accompanying carrier battles, the Japanese lose Soryu, Kaga, and Junyo, while the U.S. loses Saratoga and Wasp.

Meanwhile - Allied supplies and especially planes flow into Burma and China, hammering the Japanese in those sectors. By mid-1943, re-equipped and retrained Chinese troops are pushing back the Japanese in south China, under the Allied air umbrella.

With the massive drain on air strength in China, the Japanese become extremely vulnerable to attacks on their island "perimeter". In early 1943, the Allies take bases in the Marshall and Gilbert Islands, and then strike the Marianas in mid-1943.

British forces attack into Thailand and liberate Singapore in January 1944. In the same month, Chinese forces retake Canton and reach the coast at Swatow, and American troops land in northern Luzon, cutting the Japanese Empire in half.

American supply can now go directly to the Chinese coast, and the invigorated Chinese quickly liberate Hong Kong, then clear the ports of Changchow, Foochow, and Wenchow. Bombers operating from China lay waste to Japanese cities.

With Germany clearly nearing collapse in early 1944, and Japan falling apart as well, Stalin decides he had better get in on the war in the Far East before he gets shut out of the victory pie. (He didn't get everything he'd hoped for in eastern Europe, for one thing.) He starts sending troops to the Far East in February. In May the USSR declares war on Japan, and Soviet forces overrun Manchuria, Korea, and Karafuto by the end of July.

Chinese forces liberate Hankow, Nanking, and Shanghai, while U.S. forces liberate the Philippines and take Okinawa.

The Japanese war council remains divided, with hardliners calling for resistance to the end. They assert that by meeting an Allied invasion with mass banzai charges and so on, they can inflict shocking casualties and force the Allies to negotiate peace. Then it is pointed out that while this might work with the Americans, it is not going to work with the Soviets or the Chinese. Better to surrender to the Americans than be exterminated.

When refugees from Karafuto report that Soviet forces are preparing to invade Hokkaido, the Emperor finally intervenes. The surrender is announced on 12 August.

The consequences of all this? That's for another posting.
 
Europe

-Avoid Market-Garden, give Patton the gasoline he needs, let him cross the Rhine, Germany production is toast

-Let plans for Market-Garden not fall into Nazi hands on the first day!

-Valkyrie plot actually succeeds

-Stalin ignores Kursk and actually encircles the German forces in an ironic twist and reaches the Rhine in late 1944

-Italy's collapse is better exploited by the Allies and Rome is taken 6 months earlier, opening up much of Italy for Allied conquest
*Maybe Patton takes over for Mark Clark?

Pacific

-Naval chief of staff in Japan is sole survivor of Cabinet in a bombing raid, he makes peace in exchange only for continued existance of Imperial Family and Korea

-China unites effectively and earlier with Allied officers and real training starting in 1942, by 1944 KMT is fielding an army roughly as good as Italy's. Since Japan's is not that much better, China wins by numbers and drives Japan out of mainland Asia

-US finds Japanese Long Lance torpedo intact along with capturing an intact Zero after Pearl Harbor, we back-engineer tech from both for better equipment 8 months earlier than OTL

-UK has better defences for Singapore, it stays British for much longer

-Indochina never falls to Japan, they have to conquer it as an opening objective and this delays them for several months leading to improved Colonial defences and wider use of M1941 Johnson rifles
 
In Europe have the French stay in the war and move thier military to Algeria. t The invasion of Sicily comes in November 1942. There was no Darlan deal so the Allies make a quick deal with the post Mussolni government. The invasion of Normandy comes in mid 1943. To honor the AH tradition of reusing historical dates VE day is June 6, 1944.
 
To have Europe finish earlier as well as the forementioned holding of Crete have the invasion of Italy be better executed, land on the mainland at the same time as the invasion of Sicily and trap the bulk of Kesselring's force there allowing for a quicker race up Italy.
If Italy has been thrown out of Africa in quick order would they send troops to Russia or might they be nervous enough to tell the Germans that they're keeping their troops in southern Italy with the shortfall being made up by not having to provide the Afrika Korps and moving some troops that stayed in Italy in our timeline? If you go for the double landing idea and manage to trap large numbers of Italian and German troops, with much less resistance might the Italians - with or without Mussolini - try and attempt a separate peace? Just getting them to become neutral and move their troops up to the north to discourage any German interventions would be a major bonus. The question then becomes what would you do with the troops that in our timeline fought their way up Italy, enlarging Operation Dragoon or if Churchill got his way some landings in the Balkans seem likely.


Don't delay in closing the Falaise Gap catching thousands more Germans in the bag allowing a quicker Liberation of France.
Probably going to cause a bit of a delay breaking the trapped troops down but after that the Germans will have fewer troops, they had to leave a fair amount of equipment when they made the break for it in our timeline from what I remember, but balanced by having some extra time to prepare. IIRC the fact that a large number of the troops that turned Operation Market Garden into a fiasco were ones that escaped the pocket also means that things should go quicker in the Netherlands.


Finally don't have the British stop at Antwerp but carry on and clear the Scheldt allowing for quicker resupply for the final push into Germany.
Wasn't there possibly another large body of German troops that could have been trapped in that area but were able to get away? I have vague memories of reading about something like that with their being on either an island or peninsula, also that a lot of the ones that got away made up a fair part of the German troops from the Ardennes Counteroffensive. If you can close the Falaise pocket, close this second pocket and open the ports is there much else in the way of serious opposition west of the German border?


Again as said above Britain comes out of this better, particularly if Malaya hasn't fallen, decolonisation will be delayed for about another decade with all the potential problems that could cause.
Other than the Emergency with the local Chinese communists, which was more a major embuggerance rather than serious crisis since they had little if any broad support, were there really any major problems the British had with Malaya?


In Europe have the French stay in the war and move thier military to Algeria. t The invasion of Sicily comes in November 1942. There was no Darlan deal so the Allies make a quick deal with the post Mussolni government. The invasion of Normandy comes in mid 1943. To honor the AH tradition of reusing historical dates VE day is June 6, 1944.
One thing I've wondered about was if the Western Allies do better whilst the war on the Eastern Front goes pretty much as our timeline, what might the effects be if they purposely timed a 1943 D-Day landing so that it happened after the Battle of Kursk has kicked off and the Germans are fully committed to it? Whether the weather would of made this possible I don't know, but for the sake of argument assume that it is.
 
The Oncoming Storm said:
An early Commonwealth victory in North Africa means thousands more personnel are available to defend Malaya
It means it's probable Mussolini's government falls much sooner, so invading Italy proper is unnecessary.:rolleyes::cool:
The Oncoming Storm said:
The Pacific theatre is probably over by 1943 or early '44 at the latest when Japan's economy collapses
:confused: With Brit & Commonwealth troops going to the Burma backwater?:rolleyes:
The Oncoming Storm said:
the invasion of Italy be better executed
:eek::rolleyes: Far better if it never goes off at all, for the supplies & shipping tonnage it absorbed.:eek:
The Oncoming Storm said:
Don't delay in closing the Falaise Gap
Good idea. So either let Patton finish it, or don't assign (comparatively inexperienced) Canadians to lead Monty's thrust. Of course, if there's no Italian campaign, proably the lead force isn't as inexperienced as OTL...

It'd be good if the Neptune forces were outfitted with LVTs, instead of DD Shermans.
The Oncoming Storm said:
don't have the British stop at Antwerp but carry on and clear the Scheldt
How do you get Monty & Patton, & Ike, to take their eyes off Berlin, or away from their feuding? How do you get Monty to listen to Simonds, who saw this but was Canadian--& Monty disdained the Canadians...:rolleyes:

Other good ways: pull all the Asiatic Fleet subs back to Hawaii, instead of sending them to Oz.:cool: If you can persuade Nimitz not to scatter them at every IJN base in the PTO, even better;:cool: focus on Bungo Suido, Luzon Strait, Tsushima, & Yellow Sea, better still.:cool: Higher tanker priority (#1 is ideal) & higher DD priority from day 1 would be good. (Long shot: have Nimitz put more effort into mining IJN bases, which is unlikely; & have English put more into fixing the Mk 14 & Mk 6--which is pretty ASB...:rolleyes:)
Rich Rostrom said:
The Allies also push forward into Bulgaria and Yugoslavia.
Where's this thrust coming from? Marseilles? Not Lubjana Gap, I hope?:eek::rolleyes:
Rich Rostrom said:
Rich Rostrom said:
no U.S. carriers are lost, though all three are damaged.
IMO, damage to more than two is pushing.
Rich Rostrom said:
In early 1943, the Allies take bases in the Marshall and Gilbert Islands
After losing Wasp & Sara? Where is Nimitz getting the CV decks from?

What about this, instead:
25 February 1942, Wilkes is ordered to withdraw his boats to Hawaii & come under Withers' command.

28 February 1942, Nimitz names Red Doyle ComSubPac to replace both (with Jimmy Fife as Chief of Staff); Withers & Wilkes are sent Stateside.

2 March 1942, Doyle orders tankers put at #1 priority, DDs #2; Nimitz reluctantly concurs, but refuses Doyle's suggestion to mine Japanese anchorages & let his subs operate off Japan.

13 March 1942, Lucius Shepard's Sculpin arrives in the Luzon Straight, the first Hawaii-based boat to do so; Dick Voge's Sailfish (ex-Squalus) joins her, with Bart Bacon's Pickerel off Bungo Suido & Freddy Warder's Seawolf in the Yellow Sea.

18 June 1942, Second Raider Bn (transported by Narwhal & Argonaut) goes ashore at Tulagi to establish an outpost, followed shortly by Seabees, three PT boat squadrons, & a PBY squadron.

25 June 1942, Battle of New Georgia Sound: Shokaku & Zuikaku face Enterprise & Hornet; Hornet & Zuikaku sunk, Shokaku severely damaged but escapes; she is sunk en route to Truk by Bull Wright's Sturgeon.

17 September 1942, Doyle orders net tests of the Mark XIV torpedo; they reveal the depth-keeping mechanism causes the torpedoes to run fully 10 feet deeper than set.

November 1942, Nimitz invades Tarawa, with Marines under Gen Vandegrift; the battle is surprisingly low in casualties, but teaches many lessons.

December 1942, sinkings of Japanese merchant shipping for the year total 835,000 tons.

12 March 1943, the spate of reports of prematures, coupled with complaints from Warder & Dealey, leads Doyle to order the Mark VI's magnetic feature deactivated, over protests from BuOrd.

June 1943, Saipan falls.

December 1943, sinkings of Japanese merchant shipping for the year total 1,919,000 tons, including 225,000 tons of tankers.

7 July 1944, Japan surrenders.
 

manav95

Banned
Everyone is better off. Less Jewish fatalities in the Holocaust will mean Israel will have a tougher time getting founded. Also the Allies maybe able to stop East Germany from becoming Communist since they have to get into Europe earlier.
 
One consequence of an earlier end to the war in Asia is a likely Nationalist victory in the ensuing Chinese Civil War. Without the massive losses the Nationalists took during Japan's offensives in 1944, they are in a much better position to deal with the Communists after the war. If part of the POD is more and more effective US aid to China, then even better for them.
 
The 20 July 1944 plot succeeds. Chaos ensues.

Or perhaps the plot in February 1944 in which a German Captain agreed to blow himself up (and take the Fuehrer down with him) while modeling new coats for the army.

And, then of course, there is the plot in 1943 in which Hitler's plane was rigged with a bomb. In real life, it failed to go off, but what if it had not?

While it is possible that these situations could have worked out okay, they also could have generated a civil war in Germany. The attempted coup on 20 July 1944 hardly went smoothly and even if Hitler had died that day, I am not convinced that the plotters would have been able to consolidate power.

In addition, if one of these plots succeeds and a non-Nazi Germany is set up, perhaps the leaders will be more reasonable and an armistice can be called in 1944.
 

Archibald

Banned
An early Commonwealth victory in North Africa means thousands more personnel are available to defend Malaya from the Japanese so that offensive probably fails meaning Japan doesn't get the resources of SE Asia to fuel it's military. The Pacific theatre is probably over by 1943 or early '44 at the latest when Japan's economy collapses and its no longer able to sustain military operations.

Easiest way of course would be for the Allies to win the Battle of France in 1940.

This is exactly what happens in France Fights On. With the French fighting from Algiers, nedless to say the Italians are toast in Northern Africa. The Afrika Korps never exists in the first place, because the Italians are crushed in October 1940.
The war ends late 1944 or so.
 
It means it's probable Mussolini's government falls much sooner, so invading Italy proper is unnecessary.:rolleyes::cool:

Benny's fate is interesting to speculate but if Italy tried to flip earlier it is still going to need Allied support to pull it off.

:confused: With Brit & Commonwealth troops going to the Burma backwater?:rolleyes:

The scenario that appears to be developing in The Whale has Wings is that having stopped the Japanese in Malaya, the Commonwealth will launch an invasion of Thailand from Malaya and Burma, if that goes to plan then they will presumably push the Japanese out of Indochina. Once that happens there's really no need for a significant Commonwealth presence out East so they can be redeployed.

:eek::rolleyes: Far better if it never goes off at all

True but wasn't Italy also done to show Stalin that the WAllies were doing something to open a second front? The invasion did force Hitler to send thousands of men to Italy, without that theatre they'd be available elsewhere.

How do you get Monty & Patton, & Ike, to take their eyes off Berlin, or away from their feuding? How do you get Monty to listen to Simonds, who saw this but was Canadian--& Monty disdained the Canadians...:rolleyes:

An earlier end to North Africa most likely means that its Richard O'Connor who is in command of 21st Army Group with Monty at best an Army commander. ;)
 
July 1944 plot succeeds, and here is what I think would happen...

-Hitler is dead. The German government is thrown into immediate chaos in the aftermath, leaving factions vying for control. The SS and Gestapo are of course given the shorter end of the stick, and are caught with their pants down while the much larger Wehrmacht faction takes over the country. This leaves Himmler on the run, or dead, and much of the SS disarmed or dead. Goebbels is also killed during Valkyrie after committing suicide.

-The military, while relieved that Hitler is dead, choose not to follow the plotter's government, and instead place Goering in charge as a figurehead. While the plotters are given important government jobs, there would likely be a military junta running things in Berlin after things calm down within Germany by the end of the summer.

-By the end of the Summer, the chaos in Germany has left much of the front collapsed in the east and west. American troops likely would have liberated most of France, although there would be more pockets of German resistance, and likely more fighting despite the main front moving into the Low Countries. The military junta likely sends out peace feelers to both the Soviets and Western Allies.

-By September, the junta has agreed on a new strategy. The loss of France over the course of two months, and much of Poland and Russia since July has made the military government realize all is lost. By now, the debates are on who the Germans should fight against more, and who would better treat Germany in a Post-War situation. The junta therefore decides to divert troops to the Eastern Front to hold back the Soviets, and to allow the Western Allies to move quicker than the Soviets into Germany.

-By October and November, Allied forces have broken into Germany and are now crossing the Rhine. Soviet forces are now nearing the Vistula. Italy has been all but lost, and talks of possible surrender begin in Berlin. By the end of November, the Soviets have Warsaw and everything east of the Vistula, while the W. Allies are steadily approaching Berlin.

-The war ends in December with the Soviets just breaking into the areas west of the Vistula, and the W. Allies at the gates of Berlin. The surrender leaves the Iron Curtain somewhere in between the Oder and Vistula rivers, with Berlin and most of present-day Germany under Allied control. We might see Yugoslavia and parts of Hungary under Allied control as well in this situation.
 
The Oncoming Storm said:
Benny's fate is interesting to speculate but if Italy tried to flip earlier it is still going to need Allied support to pull it off.
I don't rule out Allied action in the Med; I've tended to prefer the idea of taking Sicily as a base for bombers over Germany & codos & MTBs/MGBs for missions up & down both coasts. Let the Germans pacify Italy, & feed the population, while the Allies save the shipping for the Neptune buildup.
The Oncoming Storm said:
The scenario that appears to be developing in The Whale has Wings is that having stopped the Japanese in Malaya, the Commonwealth will launch an invasion of Thailand from Malaya and Burma, if that goes to plan then they will presumably push the Japanese out of Indochina. Once that happens there's really no need for a significant Commonwealth presence out East so they can be redeployed.
Not unreasonable, but IMO it's an even bigger waste of shipping & manpower than Italy.:eek: Burma, Thailand, & IndoChina are not in any way the direct route to Japan. Nor, I should say, is the P.I.:rolleyes:
The Oncoming Storm said:
True but wasn't Italy also done to show Stalin that the WAllies were doing something to open a second front? The invasion did force Hitler to send thousands of men to Italy, without that theatre they'd be available elsewhere.
IDK about Stalin, offhand; you could be right. The theory about tying up German troops falls down when you realize there were twice as many Allied as German troops in Italy.:eek::rolleyes: Plus the enormous waste of bottoms which could have been used for the main objective, Neptune.
The Oncoming Storm said:
An earlier end to North Africa most likely means that its Richard O'Connor who is in command of 21st Army Group with Monty at best an Army commander. ;)
:cool::cool: So, Antwerp falls in, what, mid-July, the Scheldt is cleared promptly, the Germans are kept on the run through September, & the war is over before Wacht am Rhein goes off?:cool: (Better still, the history books say, "Monty who?":cool: And the first thing you think of when you hear the word is a big snake.:p)
 
Pacific

-US finds Japanese Long Lance torpedo intact along with capturing an intact Zero after Pearl Harbor, we back-engineer tech from both for better equipment 8 months earlier than OTL

Nit pick: Long Lances were 24" surface launched (Destroyer and Cruiser) torpedoes. 17.7" submarine launched torpedoes were captured with a minisub.
 
Not to mention that the Zero didn't have any technology that the US didn't already have. It just showed the different priorities they had to the US - ie range over protection and firepower.
 
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