WI WW2 continues into 1946 - US Navy

Archibald

Banned
I know that many ships were cancelled / not ordered. It was my "ideal" USN had all the major warships planned been build.

Ryan fireball

It was a classic piston-engine little fighter with a major difference: it had a jet engine in the rear.
There is a great story of a Fireball pilot stopping his propeller and flying on the jet engine only, outrunning a group of Corsairs or Bearcat (can't remember) and putting shame on their pilots.
 
Someone's used the A-word again. Take Cover!
By the Bye... how many extra Escort Carriers were going to be built in 1946?

I think I found that info. = http://www.alternatewars.com/BBOW/Stats/WW2_US_Cancellations.htm

12 August 1945 Cancellations (2 CV, 16 CVE)

CV-35 Reprisal (Ticonderoga Long Hull) – about 50% complete. Hulk used in explosives tests in 1948 then scrapped.
CV-46 Iwo Jima (Ticonderoga Long Hull)
CVE-124 Bastogne (Commencement Bay)
CVE-125 Eniwetok (Commencement Bay)
CVE-126 Lingayen (Commencement Bay)
CVE-127 Okinawa (Commencement Bay)
CVE-128 Unnamed (Commencement Bay)
CVE-129 Unnamed (Commencement Bay)
CVE-130 Unnamed (Commencement Bay)
CVE-131 Unnamed (Commencement Bay)
CVE-132 Unnamed (Commencement Bay)
CVE-133 Unnamed (Commencement Bay)
CVE-134 Unnamed (Commencement Bay)
CVE-135 Unnamed (Commencement Bay)
CVE-136 Unnamed (Commencement Bay)
CVE-137 Unnamed (Commencement Bay)
CVE-138 Unnamed (Commencement Bay)
CVE-139 Unnamed (Commencement Bay)
Some ships were delivered straight to the reserves, never being commissioned at all:

CVE-121 Rabaul (Commencement Bay) – Launched 14 June 1945, completed to reserve fleet.
CVE-123 Tinian (Commencement Bay) – Launched on 5 September 1945, completed to reserve fleet.
 
By the Bye... how many extra Escort Carriers were going to be built in 1946?
For the Royal Navy none. According to Friedman the RN planned to decommission some of its escort carriers to provide crews for the light fleet carriers.

For the Americans, up to 16 extra Commmencent Bay class. That is 4 ordered in FY1944 and 12 ordered in FY1945. See this quote from Shipscribe
President Roosevelt on 22 Mar 45 disapproved the entire FY 1945 shipbuilding program except for 12 CVE. The CNO on 26 Mar 45 thus directed the cancellation of 72 combatants. CV 50-55, CVB 56-57, CA 150-53, CLAA 154—59, DD 891—926 (except 891-3 and 896), and SS 545-62 were cancelled on 26—28 Mar 45. DD 891-93 and 896 had not been reordered from new builders after their cancellations of 8 Mar 45, and these cancellations thus became final.
Edit: Ninja'd again!
 
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Here's the next part.

Cruisers

4 Swiftsure class were under construction and 6 Neptune class were on order in October 1945.

IOTL the Neptune class was cancelled because they were considered out of date in favour of the Minotaur class, which was also cancelled on cost grounds. The Minotaur was replaced by the Cruiser-Destroyer and after that came the 1960 Cruiser Project. The longer Pacific War doesn't change any of that directly. However, indirectly there is the possibility that some 1960 Cruisers are built because there are no suspended Tiger class cruisers to complete to a new design.

The 4th Switsure, Hawk was cancelled on 15 October 1945 and she was broken up on the slipway. Brown and Moore thought this was surprising because although she hadn't been launched, her boilers and machinery were complete whilst her 6" gun armament was nearly so. The other 3 were suspended, but in 1951 it was decided to complete them to a new design because it was though that they would take 3 years to complete them at a cost of £6 million each, whereas a new cruiser of comparable size and armament would cost about £12 million and would require 5 years to complete. According to Brown and Moore...
"The reconstruction was extensive. All the superstructure, gun supports, minor bulkheads and most services were stripped out. In addition all auxiliary machinery and equipment had to be modified or replaced so that it could operate on an entirely AC electrical system. Reboilering was considered but was ruled out by the Board of Admiralty, as the advantages would not compensate for the delay and expense incurred.
Work didn't resume until 1954 and the ships didn't complete until 1959-61, that is 2 to 4 years late and at an average cost of £14 million a ship. We don't know how long the new ships of comparable size and armament would have taken to build in practice or how much they would have ended up costing, but my guess is that they would have been completed at about the same time as the Tigers and their actual cost would have been less than 2½ times the 1951 estimate.

AFAIK the Royal Navy planned to refit Belfast, Superb and Swiftsure to the same standard as the Tiger class. Belfast was refitted 1956-59, but didn't have her triple 6" Mk 23 turrets replaced by twin Mk 26s, which was probably just as well because she was decommissioned in 1963. Swiftsure started her refit in 1956, but it was abandoned in 1960 - does anyone have any information on how much work was done and how much was spent? Superb wasn't refitted at all because her refit was cancelled, AFAIK as part of the 1957 Defence Review.

Meanwhile the Royal Navies perennial postwar manpower shortage meant Tiger, Lion and Blake had very short service lives in their completed configurations. Blake went into reserve in 1963 after only 2 years service; Lion decommissioned in 1964 after 4 years service; and Tiger went into reserve in 1967 after 8 years service. The postponement of the Escort Cruisers gave them a reprieve because they were to be converted to interim escort cruisers. However, this refit took longer and cost more than was planned, which meant Lion's refit was cancelled.

If the war lasted another year then I think all 4 ships would be sufficiently advanced by late 1946/early 1947 to justify completion before 1950 with their original armament (nine 6" in 3 triple Mk 24 turrets and ten 4" in five twin turrets). I had already written that the main armament for Hawke was almost complete and AFAIK the original armament for Blake, Lion and Tiger had been made and paid for when they were suspended IOTL.

IIRC the Royal Navy's 9-Year Plan of 1948 included a force of 24 cruisers in 1957, which was cut to 18 ships in the Revised Restricted Fleet of 1948. In both plans the 3 suspended Tigers would replace 3 existing ships when they were completed. ITTL the number of cruisers was unchanged in both plans, but as 4 Tigers were completed instead of 3 and they were completed 1947-49 (instead of 1959-61) 4 older ships would be scrapped or at least reduced to reserve earlier than planned IOTL.

IOTL there were 29 cruisers at the end of 1950. This included:

· 14 operational ships (Belfast, Bermuda, Ceylon, Cleopatra, Euryalus, Gambia, Glasgow, Jamaica, Kenya, Liverpool, Mauritius, Phoebe, Superb and Swiftsure);
· 2 on loan to the RNZN (Bellona and Black Prince);
· 1 on harbour service (Newfoundland);
· 3 refitting (Birmingham, Newcastle and Sheffield);
· 6 completed ships the Reserve Fleet (Argonaut, Diadem, Dido, Nigeria, Royalist and Sirius);
· 3 suspended ships in the Reserve Fleet (Blake, Lion and Tiger).

The above doesn't include Cumberland because she was being converted to a trials ship or Devonshire, which IOTL served as cadet training ship 1947-53, when she was replaced by the aircraft carrier Triumph. ITTL I think Devonshire's place would have been taken by a light fleet carrier.

ITTL there would still be 14 operational cruisers, but 4 of them would be Blake, Hawke, Lion and Tiger. I reckon that the Admiralty would want 3 of the 4 displaced ships to be the Dido class Cleopatra, Euryalus and Phoebe (Dido class ships make 5 of the 6 ships in the Reserve Fleet), but that might not be possible because the Tigers need larger crews.

I don't know how much was spent on the 4 Tigers up to their suspension/cancellation at the end of WWII IOTL or how much more it would have cost to complete them in their original configuration. Similarly I don't know how much of the £42 million spent on completing Blake, Lion and Tiger IOTL was spent after the 1951 decision to complete them to a different design, but I suspect it was the "thick end of it." I also suspect that the "thick end" of the £37½ building cost of the aircraft carrier Hermes was spent 1952-59.

Therefore I guesstimate is that the earlier completion of Blake, Hermes, Lion and Tiger ITTL gives the Royal Navy has between £70 and 80 million to spend on new construction or refitting existing warships between 1951 and 1961 ITTL. I think they would probably spend it on modernising its aircraft carriers and cruisers, either by new construction or rebuilding existing ships.

If the Admiralty still decides that its quicker and cheaper to rebuild existing cruisers than ordering new ones then its highly likely that 3 of the ships that are rebuilt are Blake, Lion and Tiger because they are the newest and haven't seen any war service. The refits would last from 1954 to 1961 and cost nearly the same. However, it's unlikely that Blake and Tiger would still be converted to helicopter cruisers because of their age.
 
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Here's the next part.

Cruisers

4 Swiftsure class were under construction and 6 Neptune class were on order in October 1945.

IOTL the Neptune class was cancelled because they were considered out of date in favour of the Minotaur class, which was also cancelled on cost grounds. The Minotaur was replaced by the Cruiser-Destroyer and after that came the 1960 Cruiser Project. The longer Pacific War doesn't change any of that directly. However, indirectly there is the possibility that some 1960 Cruisers are built because there are no suspended Tiger class cruisers to complete to a new design.

The 4th Switsure, Hawk was cancelled on 15 October 1945 and she was broken up on the slipway. Brown and Moore thought this was surprising because although she hadn't been launched, her boilers and machinery were complete whilst her 6" gun armament was nearly so. The other 3 were suspended, but in 1951 it was decided to complete them to a new design because it was though that they would take 3 years to complete them at a cost of £6 million each, whereas a new cruiser of comparable size and armament would cost about £12 million and would require 5 years to complete. According to Brown and Moore...
"The reconstruction was extensive. All the superstructure, gun supports, minor bulkheads and most services were stripped out. In addition all auxiliary machinery and equipment had to be modified or replaced so that it could operate on an entirely AC electrical system. Reboilering was considered but was ruled out by the Board of Admiralty, as the advantages would not compensate for the delay and expense incurred.
Work didn't resume until 1954 and the ships didn't complete until 1959-61, that is 2 to 4 years late and at an average cost of £14 million a ship. We don't know how long the new ships of comparable size and armament would have taken to build in practice or how much they would have ended up costing, but my guess is that they would have been completed at about the same time as the Tigers and their actual cost would have been less than 2½ the 1951 estimate.

AFAIK the Royal Navy planned to refit Belfast, Superb and Swiftsure to the same standard as the Tiger class. Belfast was refitted 1956-59, but didn't have her triple 6" Mk 23 turrets replaced by twin Mk 26s, which was probably just as well because she was decommissioned in 1963. Swiftsure started her refit in 1956, but it was abandoned in 1960 - does anyone have any information on how much work was done and how much was spent? Superb wasn't refitted at all because her refit was cancelled, AFAIK as part of the 1957 Defence Review.

Meanwhile the Royal Navies perennial postwar manpower shortage meant Tiger, Lion and Blake had very short service lives in their completed configurations. Blake went into reserve in 1963 after only 2 years service; Lion decommissioned in 1964 after 4 years service; and Tiger went into reserve in 1967 after 8 years service. The postponement of the Escort Cruisers gave them a reprieve because they were to be converted to interim escort cruisers. However, this refit took longer and cost more than was planned, which meant Lion's refit was cancelled.

If the war lasted another year then I think all 4 ships would be sufficiently advanced by late 1946/early 1947 to justify completion before 1950 with their original armament (nine 6" in 3 triple Mk 24 turrets and ten 4" in five twin turrets). I had already written that the main armament for Hawke was almost complete and AFAIK the original armament for Blake, Lion and Tiger had been made and paid for when they were suspended IOTL.

IIRC the Royal Navy's 9-Year Plan of 1948 included a force of 24 cruisers in 1957, which was cut to 18 ships in the Revised Restricted Fleet of 1948. In both plans the 3 suspended Tigers would replace 3 existing ships when they were completed. ITTL the number of cruisers was unchanged in both plans, but as 4 Tigers were completed instead of 3 and they were completed 1947-49 (instead of 1959-61) 4 older ships would be scrapped or at least reduced to reserve earlier than planned IOTL.

IOTL there were 29 cruisers at the end of 1950. This included:

· 14 operational ships (Belfast, Bermuda, Ceylon, Cleopatra, Euryalus, Gambia, Glasgow, Jamaica, Kenya, Liverpool, Mauritius, Phoebe, Superb and Swiftsure);
· 2 on loan to the RNZN (Bellona and Black Prince);
· 1 on harbour service (Newfoundland);
· 3 refitting (Birmingham, Newcastle and Sheffield);
· 6 completed ships the Reserve Fleet (Argonaut, Diadem, Dido, Nigeria, Royalist and Sirius);
· 3 suspended ships in the Reserve Fleet (Blake, Lion and Tiger).

The above doesn't include Cumberland because she was being converted to a trials ship or Devonshire, which IOTL served as cadet training ship 1947-53, when she was replaced by the aircraft carrier Triumph. ITTL I think Devonshire's place would have been taken by a light fleet carrier.

ITTL there would still be 14 operational cruisers, but 4 of them would be Blake, Hawke, Lion and Tiger. I reckon that the Admiralty would want 3 of the 4 displaced ships to be the Dido class Cleopatra, Euryalus and Phoebe (Dido class ships make 5 of the 6 ships in the Reserve Fleet), but that might not be possible because the Tigers need larger crews.

I don't know how much was spent on the 4 Tigers up to their suspension/cancellation at the end of WWII IOTL or how much more it would have cost to complete them in their original configuration. Similarly I don't know how much of the £42 million spent on completing Blake, Lion and Tiger IOTL was spent after the 1951 decision to complete them to a different design, but I suspect it was the "thick end of it." I also suspect that the "thick end" of the £37½ building cost of the aircraft carrier Hermes was spent 1952-59.

Therefore I guesstimate is that the earlier completion of Blake, Hermes, Lion and Tiger ITTL gives the Royal Navy has between £70 and 80 million to spend on new construction or refitting existing warships between 1951 and 1961 ITTL. I think they would probably spend it on modernising its aircraft carriers and cruisers, either by new construction or rebuilding existing ships.

If the Admiralty still decides that its quicker and cheaper to rebuild existing cruisers than ordering new ones then its highly likely that 3 of the ships that are rebuilt are Blake, Lion and Tiger because they are the newest and haven't seen any war service. The refits would last from 1954 to 1961 and cost nearly the same. However, it's unlikely that Blake and Tiger would still be converted to helicopter cruisers because of their age.
 
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Here's the next part. This is the one where it makes the most difference in terms of numbers as the RN has 44 extra destroyers by the middle of the 1950s.

Destroyers
Introduction

72 destroyers (32 Battle class, 16 Weapon class, 16 Daring class and 8 G class) were building or on order in September 1945. 36 of them (16 Battle, 12 Weapon, 8 Daring and 8 G class) were cancelled between October 1945 and January 1946. This left 36 ships (16 Battles, 4 Weapons and 8 Darings) to be completed, but some of them were built at a very slow rate. The last HMS Diana wasn't completed until March 1954.

Battle Class

40 were ordered and IOTL. 16 were cancelled on 23rd October 1945 leaving 24 to be completed between 14th September 1944 and 21st May 1948.

· 40 were laid down (30th November 1942 to 29th June 1945);
· 33 were launched (1st November 1943 to 20th February 1946) at an average of 15 months between laying the keel and launching;
· The 8 completed before the end of 1945 (14th September 1944 to 2nd November 1945) took an average of 30 months to build;
· The 9 completed in 1946 took an average of 35 months to build;
· The 6 completed in 1947 took an average of 39 months to build;
· The single ships completed in 1948 took 51 months to build.

If World War II had lasted 12 months longer than OTL all 40 Battles would have been launched by the end of September 1946; 29 would have been completed by the end of 1946; and the other 11 would be due for completion by the end of 1947, but the end of the war meant that the last one was probably completed in the middle of 1948.

That means that 40 ships are completed instead of 24. Unfortunately the 16 extra ships go straight into the Reserve Fleet after completing their builders trials.

Weapon class

Weapon class 16 on order at the end of the war, but 12 were cancelled between October 1945 and January 1946, leaving 4 to be completed between 17th September 1947 and 4th October 1948.

· 13 were laid down (16th February 1944 to 17th September 1945);
· 6 were launched (12th June 1945 to 15th August 1946) at an average of 20 months between laying down and launching, but 2 of them were launched to clear the slipway;
· 3 ships (Battleaxe, Crossbow and Scorpion) were built in 42-43 months, but;
· Broadsword the last ship of the class to be completed took 51 months to build, which pushed the average building time for the class up to 45 months.

If World War II had lasted 12 months longer than OTL I think all 16 weapons would have been laid down by the end of 1945). At an average of 15 months to launching 13 would have been launched by the end of 1946 and the other 3 in early 1947. At an average of 30 months to build like the Battle class then 5 would have been completed by the end of 1946, with 7 more due in 1947 and the last 4 to complete in the first half of 1947. However, like the Battle class the end of the war would mean the ships incomplete at September 1946 take 6 months to a year longer than that to finish.

That means that 16 ships are completed instead of 4. Unfortunately the 12 extra ships go straight into the Reserve Fleet after completing their builders trials.

Daring and G classes

16 Daring and 8 G class were ordered under the 1944-45 programme, but half the Daring class and all 8 G class destroyers were cancelled in December 1945, two months after the cancellation of 16 Battles and 12 Weapons.

The 8 remaining Daring class ships took a long time to build. The first was laid down on 29th September 1945, but the last wasn't laid down until 22nd March 1949. The average was 68 months to build including 39 months to launch. They did not join the fleet until between 21st February 1952 and 29th March 1954.

I think all 24 Daring and G class destroyers would have been laid down by September 1946 had the war lasted another year. I think that like Ark Royal ITTL they would have been launched to clear the slipway and then laid up until about 1950 when they would be resumed for completion in the first half of the 1950s.

Summary

In 1948 the Royal Navy of OTL had 113 destroyers built and 8 building. That is 59 M to Z class, 26 C class, 24 Battle class and 4 Weapon class plus the 8 Daring class building. It intended to convert the M to Z classes into frigates and retain the 54 C, Battle and Weapon class ships as destroyers. This doesn't quite match the Naval Estimates for 1948-49, which show a total of 117 destroyers of which 34 were active, 18 were engaged in trials and training; and 65 were in reserve or under refit. I think the discrepancy was the 4 surviving Tribal, J, K and L class destroyers.

At the same time ITTL the RN would have 141 destroyers built and 24 building. The 28 extra ships were the 16 Battle and 12 Weapon class destroyers cancelled IOTL. The plan was to convert the 85 M to C classes to frigates and retain the 56 Battle and Weapon class ships as destroyers. However, the Naval Estimates for 1948-49 would still show 34 destroyers as active and 18 engaged in trials and training, but there would be 93 in reserve or under refit instead of 65.
 
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