WI WW1- The Dutch allowed Germany to pass troops through the Netherlands?

Let's say that in this timeline, the Dutch allow Germany troops use of their railways and that as a result, the Germans do not get held up in Belgium. The Dutch do not join the Central Powers, they merely allow troop access. How does this affect WW1? Would the quicker advance to Paris result in an early victory? What might Germany be able to offer the Dutch in exchange for this favor?
 
The battle of the Marne was a pretty close thing IOTL - enough to tip the balance? But wouldn't the Germans have to coordinate themselves with the Dutch some time before the war actually starts?
 

TruthfulPanda

Gone Fishin'
Wouldn't the Allied powers simply see the Netherlands as a belligerent power and thus attack them?
Depends. Attacking or ignoring - anything is possible - google for "Lend Lease convoys to Vladivostok in WWII" for an example of flexibility.
 
Wouldn't the Allied powers simply see the Netherlands as a belligerent power and thus attack them?
If they can yes. But the only reason to ask for Germany is to strike a rapid blow into Belgium/France. The railroads aren't perfect for a German offensive, but there are two lines through Limburg (bypassing the Meuse defenses) and a line running into Antwerp pretty much from the Ruhr.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Railwaysnetherlands1880.PNG

So either the German offensive wildly succeeds and captures Belgium and nearly shatters France and the BEF, in which case the Entente has other worries than attacking the Netherlands for being a non-belligerent Central Power... or the Germans don't succeed completely, and the Netherlands are rapidly promoted to belligerent Central Power.
 
If nothing else that might give the Japanese (who are of course merely honoring their part of the alliance with the UK when they join the entente side in WWI and totally not being opportunistic at all) enough reasons to take the Dutch East Indies, which they also have a good chance of keeping regardless of who won WWI. The vast resources of the Dutch East Indies may also sate Japan's resource needs, or at least make their later wars against China much less susceptible to outside pressures (such as the US embargo of oil and scrap metal in otl)
 
I think there would be a race to put troops on the south bank of the Scheldt river; the Germans so they could outflank Antwerp and the Entente so they could avoid such a move. I think at least one of the Belgian Army'd 6 field divisions would move in there pretty quickly and the Royal Marine brigade that landed at Ostend on August 27 would be deployed to reinforce this position, and therefore likely beat the Germans.

However, even with that the Germans should be able to de-train just north of Antwerp to further outflank from the north the forces there. Given that all other forces were fully occupied I'd suggest that the most appropriate troops would be the IX Reserve Corps of the North Army that was IOTL detailed with guarding the north west coastal area of Germany until late August when it was transferred to von Kluck's 1st Army.
 
One can't get to France from the Netherlands without crossing Belgium.

True, but once you bring Belgium into the war it needs to be fought as effectively as possible. So...

Isn't the premise of this thread geographically flawed?

...no because sending troops on an administrative move through the Netherlands will make the fight against the Belgians more effective and further make the larger fight against the British and French more effective.
 
One can't get to France from the Netherlands without crossing Belgium. Isn't the premise of this thread geographically flawed?

Not when one of the biggest changes from the original Schlieffen Plan to the one executed was the removal of the advance across the Maastrict appendix, which funnelled the right hook into a head-on attack against Liege and Namur.
 

NoMommsen

Donor
Sry, but ... for whatever reason should the germans need the dutch ralways at all ?

The enemy to be beaten was France not Belgium.
Bad luck for Belgium, for being in the way for the germans to reach northern France.

Where does dutch territory border France ?

Any ... 'attention' payed for the Netherlands is only a costly (in terms of troops etc.) distraction from the real target.
 
Sry, but ... for whatever reason should the germans need the dutch ralways at all ?

The enemy to be beaten was France not Belgium.
Bad luck for Belgium, for being in the way for the germans to reach northern France.

Where does dutch territory border France ?

Any ... 'attention' payed for the Netherlands is only a costly (in terms of troops etc.) distraction from the real target.
So that they could move troops into position to beat the Belgians faster, thus giving the French less time to react to their movements, so that they can face France with a greater advantage

The longer it takes Germany to beat Belgium, the more time the French have to prepare. If Germany can use Dutch railways (without fighting the Dutch of course) to outflank Belgium, then they can beat them quicker and get to fighting France sooner
 
Where does dutch territory border France ?

Any ... 'attention' payed for the Netherlands is only a costly (in terms of troops etc.) distraction from the real target.

TBF the original Schlieffen Plan called for the 'hook' to come through both Belgium and the Netherlands to allow for a broader front. Gaining rail access without a fight gets those benefits with no need for battle.

I don't think the Dutch joining the Central Powers is nessecarily likely - it will be clear they have ascented under duress and I imagine there will be some domestic unrest. The Entente will certainly expect some quid pro quo in terms of shipping and the colonies - certainly with regards to German warships (fears of them fleeing to Suriname or Java). If the Dutch public isn't soured on the Germans they may react to this by allying with Berlin but I think the Dutch will feel hard done by both sides. This may lead to a social malaise or perhaps a Swiss-style armed neutrality movement, a heavily armed and fortified nation, perhaps even ironically developing closer relations with the likes of Switzerland and Norway.
 
TBF the original Schlieffen Plan called for the 'hook' to come through both Belgium and the Netherlands to allow for a broader front. Gaining rail access without a fight gets those benefits with no need for battle.

The march through the Maastricht appendix was assumed to bring the Dutch into the war and Schlieffen allocated some of the 300,000 extra troops he assumed would be available to mask the 90,000 strong Dutch field army, creating a vicious cycle. Moltke never got those 300,000 troops which meant that he could squeeze the troops he did have through the Liege defile, meaning the Dutch wouldn't join the war, meaning he didn't need tens of thousands of troops to mask the Dutch, thus creating a virtuous cycle.
 
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TBF the original Schlieffen Plan called for the 'hook' to come through both Belgium and the Netherlands to allow for a broader front. Gaining rail access without a fight gets those benefits with no need for battle.

I don't think the Dutch joining the Central Powers is nessecarily likely - it will be clear they have ascented under duress and I imagine there will be some domestic unrest. The Entente will certainly expect some quid pro quo in terms of shipping and the colonies - certainly with regards to German warships (fears of them fleeing to Suriname or Java). If the Dutch public isn't soured on the Germans they may react to this by allying with Berlin but I think the Dutch will feel hard done by both sides. This may lead to a social malaise or perhaps a Swiss-style armed neutrality movement, a heavily armed and fortified nation, perhaps even ironically developing closer relations with the likes of Switzerland and Norway.

More domestic unrest than the British extending the embargo to Dutch ports? Because that's almost a guranteed certainty if German military forces are operating on Dutch soil. After all, if The Hague is willing to go so far as to not resist Germans trapsing across their nation "under duress", how can she be capable of making sure they don't get access to her markets and thus supply themselves via the "Windpipe" (Which was one of the reasons the German warplan was altered in the first place; to allow The Neatherlands to act as a limited trans-shipment point). While its unfortunate, the Dutch are in a situation where they're basically being forced to pick a side... and I'm liable to think that side is going to be the Entente. The military can pull back to the National Redoubt and await British expeditionary forces to support them in striking at the flank the Germans would be leaving in their lines, maintain access to the world market, and assuage likely public opinion as well as get potential promises of compensation (Though Imperial ambitions are likely at the bottem of the list of motivations)
 
The germans in our timeline did use a road that was for a part dutch in 1914. The dutch government looked away, they didn't want to get involved. After the war Belgium made some big landclaims based on this incident and some other issues (Zeeuws Vlaanderen and the south of Dutch Limburg). But the other allies dismissed those immediately. It still soured Dutch-Belgian relationships for some years after the war.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
Please post map of railroads in the area.
Then we can discuss "held up in Belgium or not".

The battle of the Marne was a pretty close thing IOTL - enough to tip the balance? But wouldn't the Germans have to coordinate themselves with the Dutch some time before the war actually starts?

The Germans at minimum would need detailed war plans for this option. And yes, it likely means some informal coordination or prewar agreement.

It will greatly help the Germans on the rail network, and also the inland water network. The supply situation in Belgium will radically improve.

I believe there is a gap between the Antwerp fortress and the Belgium/German border fortresses. Combined with the better supplies, the Germans will blow through the Belgium defensive much quicker. As to the later battles, it is much more dynamic depending on how the butterflies work out. You might well envelop a French army or two. Or maybe the lines still stall like OTL but with the Germans farther to the west.
 
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