It was to give a sense of time. Without the ACW the Union fleet will be in even less shape to fight the RN.
Course the idea that the US would even get involved in this latest bout of European stupidity is really questionable.
WI: WW1 happened in the 1860s/1870s over German unification?
- Thread starter Disraeli2004
- Start date
Course the idea that the US would even get involved in this latest bout of European stupidity is really questionable.
The US would have a fairly high grade of volunteer, given a likely amnesty of Confederates being quicker than OTL due to necessity (Reconstruction ends sooner) and you'd have a lot of Civil War veterans on both sides. They also would still have a large amount of institutional knowledge of how to build up a large army due to the Civil War.
The Navy would be where they take a pounding early on, but they could catch up fairly quickly.
This isn't directed at anyone, but this is not about the American Civil War. I think I have established a good case about why this cannot be about America and would not involve them.
From what I can see, there are two clear blocks:
Prussian block:
Prussia (Franco-Prussian War)
Russia: Austrian involvement convinces them to seize the initative in the Balkans by weakening Austria- they smell weakness by Hungarian insurrection and the failure of the compromise of 1867 following Austrian involvement, because the Hungarians believe the war is a ploy to roll back the Hungarian compromise. Hoping to gain Galicia and a free hand in the Balkans.
Possible members:
Britain (I think this is unlikely, but some have argued otherwise. Prussian expansionism did not sit well with British public opinion. The Russo-Prussian alliance means that the English probably wouldn't join, as it would directly enable Russian expansion- after Crimea, it was paramount for the british to avoid this)
Italy (again, I think this is unlikely. They could use the war to seize irredentist claims against Austria and France. BUT they would probably sit neutral to try and extract concessions. Remember, they JUST unified Italy and were keen to garner international acceptance of their Rome annexation, by far the most important. They would not risk it all in a foreign war)
French Block
France (Franco-Prussian war)
Austria (In this timeline, let's say the Treaty of Prague was harsher and Austria was forced to give up Bohemia. Austrian opinion is outraged and they are looking to rectify their position and regain prominence within Germany and undo the humiliation)
Possible:
The Ottoman Empire- To stop an ascendant Russia in the Balkans
Britain- to safeguard the balance of power, both in Germany and in the Balkans (see several earlier posts)
Anyone vehemently disagree? Who would win?
From what I can see, there are two clear blocks:
Prussian block:
Prussia (Franco-Prussian War)
Russia: Austrian involvement convinces them to seize the initative in the Balkans by weakening Austria- they smell weakness by Hungarian insurrection and the failure of the compromise of 1867 following Austrian involvement, because the Hungarians believe the war is a ploy to roll back the Hungarian compromise. Hoping to gain Galicia and a free hand in the Balkans.
Possible members:
Britain (I think this is unlikely, but some have argued otherwise. Prussian expansionism did not sit well with British public opinion. The Russo-Prussian alliance means that the English probably wouldn't join, as it would directly enable Russian expansion- after Crimea, it was paramount for the british to avoid this)
Italy (again, I think this is unlikely. They could use the war to seize irredentist claims against Austria and France. BUT they would probably sit neutral to try and extract concessions. Remember, they JUST unified Italy and were keen to garner international acceptance of their Rome annexation, by far the most important. They would not risk it all in a foreign war)
French Block
France (Franco-Prussian war)
Austria (In this timeline, let's say the Treaty of Prague was harsher and Austria was forced to give up Bohemia. Austrian opinion is outraged and they are looking to rectify their position and regain prominence within Germany and undo the humiliation)
Possible:
The Ottoman Empire- To stop an ascendant Russia in the Balkans
Britain- to safeguard the balance of power, both in Germany and in the Balkans (see several earlier posts)
Anyone vehemently disagree? Who would win?
Because Balance of Power (TM) CC. A united Germany could field a bigger land army than France, have a comparable industry to britain to build a similar navy, and would be without a major check unless France are Spain or something, and that would put Britain in a very uncomfortable position
A Prussia that is in conflict with Russia would be a key and viable ally for the UK. So I don't buy the argument Prussia and the UK are doomed to be opposed to each other.
Britain was basically just opposed to the rise of new powers- Russia might've been an old power, but the industrialization and proximity to India was very dangerous to Britain. Britain ideally would've just had Russia and Prussia blow each other up, but considering Prussia was a newer power on an expansion kick, and had a stronger naval capacity (let's see Russia threaten the home island with just their baltic naval industries), yeah...
Absolutely. And if the Russians were rampaging through Austrian territory, they'd join against whoevr the Russians were fighting for. And that would be on the Prussian side,
Yes. If it was Prussia-Russia against France and Austria would not result in a war of attrition. Austria was in a sorry state due to two total defeats in 1859 and 1866 and France didn't cope in our timeline and would continue to lose even with pressure applied from Austrian entry. Britain would be faced with a reality of a Russian victory if they didn't intervene. They wouldn't intervene immediately, they probably would once Russia was clear to obtain victory and assert their dominance in the Balkans. Remember, Britain had fought Crimea to maintain that balance- they're not going to just give up in the Balkans. They didn't in 1878 and threatened war and forced the Congress of Berlin, for example
Do you mean "Franco-Austrian"? If Russia comes in (either in 1866 or 1870) it will almost certainly be on the Prussian side.
But almost certainly too late to make any difference.
British public opinion swung in favour of France when the Germans bombarded Paris and its population starved. But by then, of course, the only remaining question was how severe the peace treaty would be.
This is really good stuff. I'm thinking of making a map series based on this, but I need more concrete ideas based on the shape of the war. My two cents is that France and Austria would suffer initial losses then their fortunates would reserve if Britain joined the war on the their side. Any thoughts? How would the British navy shape the course of the war?
Dont think the RN would do much beyond transports, maybe invading northwestern Prussia, but any further and Russia's Baltic fleet could cause issue
Surely they could blockade Prussia? And wouldn't they be able to overpower the Russian navies?
I forgot blockades were a thing and the confines of the Baltic seem like Britain might struggle